Replaceing oil pump
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,220
Likes: 643
From: Orange County Ca
Replaceing oil pump
I'm getting ready to replace the rear main seal in my 69 BB and just thought about reinstalling the oil pump. Engine in car.
Will the pump drive shaft fall out of the engine and is it a problem to get it back in? Replace the plastic alignment tube (can you buy this part seperately?) or get a new shaft with a metal socket on the end?
Sealant between the pump and the block?
Thanks in advance.
Will the pump drive shaft fall out of the engine and is it a problem to get it back in? Replace the plastic alignment tube (can you buy this part seperately?) or get a new shaft with a metal socket on the end?
Sealant between the pump and the block?
Thanks in advance.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,229
Likes: 656
From: Thunder Bay
The pump driveshaft will come out with the pump. You just have to align the slot in the shaft with the end of the distributor when you re-install it. The plastic ring that retains the driveshaft on the pump is available by itself, although it comes with most gasket kits. You probably don't need to replace it unless its obviously munched. No sealant needed although I put some blue Loctite on the threads of the bolt holding the pump. Pretty sure having this fall out would ruin your day.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,098
Likes: 378
From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Careful, dont get while im at it itis. Unless u have oil press problems your more likely to create a problem than prevent one. Yes the pump holds the drive shaft from the distributor. Dont know if BB used a plastic sleeve coupler also but unless u have a lot of miles i would let it be. More likely to crack and break from handling than anything else. U would need to remove the distributor also to get the oil drive up again and drop the dist in again.
Once u replace the oil pump u need to clearance the pickup to the oil pan. Well u need to fix the pickup tube to the pump once clearanced - usually staked but many like to braze or weld it to the pump. Then again verify clearance to the pan.
Why go there Sayfoo. Save it for rebuild time.
Fix it and drive it,
cardo0
Once u replace the oil pump u need to clearance the pickup to the oil pan. Well u need to fix the pickup tube to the pump once clearanced - usually staked but many like to braze or weld it to the pump. Then again verify clearance to the pan.
Why go there Sayfoo. Save it for rebuild time.
Fix it and drive it,
cardo0
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 226
From: Cocoa FL
Just to be clear, the pump does not need to be removed to R&R the oil pan gasket. From the way you worded your post it seems you think the pump will have to be removed to do this repair, just want to make sure you understand that it can stay there. Like has been said before, just leave the pump alone unless you are experiencing pressure issues, etc. in which case you most likely have more problems then just an oil pan gasket. Just my $.02.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 8,351
Likes: 75
From: Tampa Bay FL
I agree. Unless oil pressure is an issue, leave the pump and pickup alone. With oil pump replacement, you have to buy/install/set clearance of pickup relative to bottom of oil pan. And, as others have said, you have to either be very careful about replacing the oil pump drive shaft with plastic sleeve OR pull the distributor and align from the top.
I'd clean the oil pan, replace rear main seal and go with a 1-piece fel-pro oil pan gasket and button it back up.
I'd clean the oil pan, replace rear main seal and go with a 1-piece fel-pro oil pan gasket and button it back up.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,220
Likes: 643
From: Orange County Ca
Thanks all. I am replacing the main seal, so I will just r&r the pump, unless the plastic bushing is damaged, in which case I'll replace that also.
I had thought to replace the oem shaft and plastic bushing with a aftermarket shaft with intregal socket end, but that doesn't appear to be necessary.
I had thought to replace the oem shaft and plastic bushing with a aftermarket shaft with intregal socket end, but that doesn't appear to be necessary.
Last edited by Sayfoo; Jan 6, 2014 at 11:50 AM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 1,171
From: Hermosa
Guys, he is replacing the rear main seal. Unless BB is different from the SB, he needs to remove the pump in order to do so.
OP, I replaced my plastic sleeve on my SB when I removed the pump the first time because it broke into two pieces as soon as I touched the pump drive shaft. Yes it can be purchased seperately.
OP, I replaced my plastic sleeve on my SB when I removed the pump the first time because it broke into two pieces as soon as I touched the pump drive shaft. Yes it can be purchased seperately.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,116
From: Crossville TN
There is no "R & R for the pump". The least you can do is remove it, open it up and inspect it. If scored or damaged, replace it. But, if your oil pressure is good and it's not noisy, the odds are VERY, VERY good that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the pump.
That being the case, just leave it alone.
That being the case, just leave it alone.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
R&R is Remove and Replace - take it off and put it back on with no part replacement,inspection or repair.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 1,171
From: Hermosa
I'm getting ready to replace the rear main seal in my 69 BB and just thought about reinstalling the oil pump. Engine in car.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
I had two screw ups when I was a kid with a big block Chevy.
1) I used the nylon collar to hold the shaft on a high volume oil pump. Fired it up one cold morning and revved it more than I should .... The nylon collar cracked off and the shaft broke an ear off the oil pump input shaft.
2) a few years later I rebuilt the 427 and only tack welded the oil pump pick up. My girl friend crashed the car (77 Monte Carlo) . From the impact the pick up tube popped off.
So here's my advise. Do replace your oil pump, they're cheap! Pick up a steel collar oil pump drive. Set your pick up tube to the correct height. Weld, screw or strap the pick up in place. Torque oil pump with a generous amount of loctite (red)
Your rear seal, make sure you off set it a little bit in the cap. I've never done it but it seams many builders now a days do it....
1) I used the nylon collar to hold the shaft on a high volume oil pump. Fired it up one cold morning and revved it more than I should .... The nylon collar cracked off and the shaft broke an ear off the oil pump input shaft.
2) a few years later I rebuilt the 427 and only tack welded the oil pump pick up. My girl friend crashed the car (77 Monte Carlo) . From the impact the pick up tube popped off.
So here's my advise. Do replace your oil pump, they're cheap! Pick up a steel collar oil pump drive. Set your pick up tube to the correct height. Weld, screw or strap the pick up in place. Torque oil pump with a generous amount of loctite (red)
Your rear seal, make sure you off set it a little bit in the cap. I've never done it but it seams many builders now a days do it....
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,116
From: Crossville TN
New oil pumps ARE cheap...because most of the new ones are just a POS gypo part!!!
What you already have is a 'tried and true', original GM, no :BS:, working oil pump. You already know that it works well over a considerable period of time. Those pumps were made to last FOREVER...unless you run some metallic trash through it or run it dry
.
Youngin's only understand "replace the old stuff". Older folks understand that C3 equipment was made to much more rigid standards and specs back then. The design and fabrication paradigm was much different 40 years ago. Today, they just want stuff to last through the [almost nonexistent] warranty period.
BTW, what is the warranty period for a "new" oil pump from "The ZONE"? 90 days, at the most. And you already have one that's worked flawlessly for over 40 years....
Hey, the pistons rings and bearings are 40 years old, too. Why not just buy "new" stuff for everything that's OLD in the engine?
What you already have is a 'tried and true', original GM, no :BS:, working oil pump. You already know that it works well over a considerable period of time. Those pumps were made to last FOREVER...unless you run some metallic trash through it or run it dry
.Youngin's only understand "replace the old stuff". Older folks understand that C3 equipment was made to much more rigid standards and specs back then. The design and fabrication paradigm was much different 40 years ago. Today, they just want stuff to last through the [almost nonexistent] warranty period.
BTW, what is the warranty period for a "new" oil pump from "The ZONE"? 90 days, at the most. And you already have one that's worked flawlessly for over 40 years....
Hey, the pistons rings and bearings are 40 years old, too. Why not just buy "new" stuff for everything that's OLD in the engine?
Last edited by 7T1vette; Jan 6, 2014 at 05:48 PM.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 408
Likes: 1
From: Ormond Beach Florida
My question to you Sayfoo is, "Why would you not change the oil pump since you will have the pan off?" It is an inexpensive part and removal and installation of new is a relatively simple procedure. I did not have to remove my distributor to line up the drive shaft. Setting the pick-up screen to 5/16 of an inch was accomplished by using a 5/16 drive bit to set, checked with play dough (with gasket in place), then tacked arm in place. Simple job and absolutely no worries that my oil pump will fail. Some may insist that it is still not necessary, but I drive a 30 year old car and it just seems prudent to prevent any unwarranted mishaps if I can.
New oil pump:
Old oil pump drive shaft (Note scoring on shaft):
Old oil pump drive gear (Note wear):
Old oil pump base plate (Note scoring from gears);
Oil oil pump housing (Note gears face wear where contact with base plate):
Old oil pump disassembled (Note wear marks behind gear):
Old oil pump on engine (Note pick-up screen discoloration:
New oil pump:
Old oil pump drive shaft (Note scoring on shaft):
Old oil pump drive gear (Note wear):
Old oil pump base plate (Note scoring from gears);
Oil oil pump housing (Note gears face wear where contact with base plate):
Old oil pump disassembled (Note wear marks behind gear):
Old oil pump on engine (Note pick-up screen discoloration:
Last edited by scorpion18z; Jan 6, 2014 at 05:50 PM.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,220
Likes: 643
From: Orange County Ca
Sorry about the confusion.
I rebuilt the engine about 8 yrs and 20k miles ago and I recently developed a rear main seal leak. The pump and oil pressure are fine. The replacement pump was disassembled and blueprinted and the pick up was brazed to the pump. I will remove and replace it as is,
I was just trying to go over the job in my mind and get all the required parts before starting. And I was wondering if there was any new types of seals or if the pump shaft plastic bushing was up dated or whatever?
I bought a 1 piece FelPro pan gasket and a National Nitrile rear seal.
The only question now is, replace the plastic shaft bushing or buy a 1 piece shaft with intragal socket??
1 vote for the new shaft.
Any other thoughts?
I rebuilt the engine about 8 yrs and 20k miles ago and I recently developed a rear main seal leak. The pump and oil pressure are fine. The replacement pump was disassembled and blueprinted and the pick up was brazed to the pump. I will remove and replace it as is,
I was just trying to go over the job in my mind and get all the required parts before starting. And I was wondering if there was any new types of seals or if the pump shaft plastic bushing was up dated or whatever?
I bought a 1 piece FelPro pan gasket and a National Nitrile rear seal.
The only question now is, replace the plastic shaft bushing or buy a 1 piece shaft with intragal socket??
1 vote for the new shaft.
Any other thoughts?
Last edited by Sayfoo; Jan 6, 2014 at 06:21 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
No reason not to replace the shaft - it's not a precision fit ;-) The ARP or Melling Select Performance are the right buys.
Regarding the pump replacement, the biggest issue is the pickup; not just getting the clearance right, but also ensuring that the pickup stays put. If someone can braze (not weld) a zot on the pickup/pump body, it's less of a worry...but otherwise it's a press fit and a used pickup in a new pump can be a risky combination.
As for pumps, anything other than a Melling Performance pump (or a very high-end pump for an engine making big power) is a Bad Idea - the stock/replacement type pumps aren't intended for any performance use.
Regarding the pump replacement, the biggest issue is the pickup; not just getting the clearance right, but also ensuring that the pickup stays put. If someone can braze (not weld) a zot on the pickup/pump body, it's less of a worry...but otherwise it's a press fit and a used pickup in a new pump can be a risky combination.
As for pumps, anything other than a Melling Performance pump (or a very high-end pump for an engine making big power) is a Bad Idea - the stock/replacement type pumps aren't intended for any performance use.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
New oil pumps ARE cheap...because most of the new ones are just a POS gypo part!!!
What you already have is a 'tried and true', original GM, no :BS:, working oil pump. You already know that it works well over a considerable period of time. Those pumps were made to last FOREVER...unless you run some metallic trash through it or run it dry.
Youngin's only understand "replace the old stuff". Older folks understand that C3 equipment was made to much more rigid standards and specs back then. The design and fabrication paradigm was much different 40 years ago. Today, they just want stuff to last through the [almost nonexistent] warranty period.
BTW, what is the warranty period for a "new" oil pump from "The ZONE"? 90 days, at the most. And you already have one that's worked flawlessly for over 40 years....
Hey, the pistons rings and bearings are 40 years old, too. Why not just buy "new" stuff for everything that's OLD in the engine?
What you already have is a 'tried and true', original GM, no :BS:, working oil pump. You already know that it works well over a considerable period of time. Those pumps were made to last FOREVER...unless you run some metallic trash through it or run it dry
.Youngin's only understand "replace the old stuff". Older folks understand that C3 equipment was made to much more rigid standards and specs back then. The design and fabrication paradigm was much different 40 years ago. Today, they just want stuff to last through the [almost nonexistent] warranty period.
BTW, what is the warranty period for a "new" oil pump from "The ZONE"? 90 days, at the most. And you already have one that's worked flawlessly for over 40 years....
Hey, the pistons rings and bearings are 40 years old, too. Why not just buy "new" stuff for everything that's OLD in the engine?
oh no
For some reason other than a ZL1 engine could I imagine someone taking a special look at our corvette oil pumps
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,112
Likes: 28
From: Florida
My question to you Sayfoo is, "Why would you not change the oil pump since you will have the pan off?" It is an inexpensive part and removal and installation of new is a relatively simple procedure. I did not have to remove my distributor to line up the drive shaft. Setting the pick-up screen to 5/16 of an inch was accomplished by using a 5/16 drive bit to set, checked with play dough (with gasket in place), then tacked arm in place. Simple job and absolutely no worries that my oil pump will fail. Some may insist that it is still not necessary, but I drive a 30 year old car and it just seems prudent to prevent any unwarranted mishaps if I can.
New oil pump:
New oil pump:
Use a Melling Select pump.
I would also clean the pickup screen very well. Melling even had a paper on this alone.
For broken plastic collars, I've replaced them in a pinch with a 1/2" dia copper sweat coupling and a couple have lasted over 100k miles+.
BTW, the oil pump is the ONLY internal moving part that uses unfiltered oil.
