I have my 1977 Vette up on my hoist, repairing minor frame rust and generally cleaning up the underside. I noticed that the fuel line is steel for the most part, but in two places it has a section of rubber hose. About a 4" section around the rear of the driver door, and a 3" section as it turns inboard toward the tank. Is this normal, or has someone done a repair in the cars past?
Also, a small drip (about 6 drips a day) coming from the fuel pump. After cleaning it well, it looks like it is not dripping from any of the lines. The actual pump body is dampened with gasoline, can that be?
Any tricks of the trade when replacing the fuel pump if I end up needing to do that?

 

Your fuel pump may have a weep hole just like the water pump. Fuel will come out of that when the diaphragm is leaking. New fuel pump time if it is.
Use ultra black for good sealing and make sure fuel pump lobe is not facing the pump hole for ease of installation. May require turning the engine by hand to get the pump lobe in right position.

 

Driver's side lines would suggest that those are emission vapor lines. Emission steel lines are one piece from the canister to the tank. Not sure if your reference to "rear door" means the engine compartment or toward the storage compartment. But if the engine compartment could be where the line enters the canister.

Kind of neat to check it out from underneath tho...huh?

 

some one replaced or repaired the fuel line. It is hard to get a new fuel line on a car that has the body on the frame, so, sometimes they cut it to get over the rear end area. Yours may be just a line repair, judging where it sounds like it has been spliced.
pictures might help us judge what has been done. BUT, you should not have rubber lines on there! A place for leaks.

 

For what it is worth:

If you have to change a fuel pump...and you rotate the engine so the shaft goes all the way up into the engine block as much as possible. I remove the bolt in the front of the engine ( by the fuel pump)and install a bolt that I have ground down to a rounded point...so when I install it in this bolt hole...it will hold the shaft and keep it from falling down. I know that grease can be used to hold this shaft up...but many times I am working on a warm engine block and the grease method just does not work. When I get the pump on, sealed and secured...I remove the bolt that held the shaft and re-install the factory one that went there.

YES...fuel dripping on the drives side is vapor line like "hunt4cleanair" mentioned. And the body has to be raised to service it correctly. No fun task.

DUB

 

I did the line in a 74 corvette. It wasn't too bad but I had to do it in two sections with a compression fitting right behind the door. So I'm thinking the PO did the same thing but used rubber hose. It is a low or no pressure feed line so rubber will be fine as lone as its not rubbing on anything.

 

The bold text is the "kiss of death". Old, hard, cracking rubber hose...you gotta love it.

I can not tell you how many Corvettes a year I see that have been butchered on....and are a "Roman candle" waiting to be lit up. Fuel lines (supply and return) along with plugged up vapor return line that have been "modified" with rubber.

DUB

 

All these posts got me looking closer at all the lines. On the passenger side, the steel line which comes from the engine changes to rubber hose just at the rear pillar of the passenger door area. Rubber is very soft. Obviously needs to be changed, but how the heck do you get to the tank end of that hose. Seems it just disappears up into the tank area but I have no idea how to access the tank. Working on my 66 Mustang is soooo much easier.
Thanks for everyone's awesome input by the way..

 

Access to the fuel tank area is greatly improved with the removal of the spare tire and tub.

 

I will write this one time. What you take from it is up to you.

I HIGHLY would NOT recommend using ANY RUBBER hose on your fuel supply and return lines...other than the rubber hoses that come off the ends of the lines and go to the fuel tank and the fuel pump. Splicing in a rubber hose to a cut steel line is a problem waiting to happen. And it is not the fact that you can come out and see a fuel leak and fix it due to fuel being on the ground. It has to do with you having something hit the rubber hose ...WHILE DRIVING....and then have a problem. AND chances are ...you do not have any fire extinguishers in the car now. Not like that can help in some cases. Just look on the net for pictures and video of Corvette fires...they are out there.

SO...if a car came into my shop and I saw the cut steel fuel line (and many have)...that has had a rubber hose stuck in it and clamped...they would only have ONE option. Replace the steel line. I would not even attempt to install steel braided line. Due to routing issues and the ability that steel braided hose can bend...it is not worth my time to try to "rig" something....especially when it has to do with the fuel system. I would be held liable for any failures.

Right is right...and anything else is NOT right. And just as good...just doesn't cut it. Because I am sure that if I did it differently...and it failed...and that person sued me...their attorney would have a hay-day proving that his/her client would have paid to have it done correctly...and that MY choice to do it differently, caused the failure and that I am not an engineer who has done NO testing...and now I have to pay them major $$$$...even though THEY knew and had the option to do it RIGHT...but just didn't want to pay for it and INSISTED to do it the way it was done before.

Now...with that written....I am curious on what you plan to do.

NOT on a 1977. The fuel goes to the top and not the bottom like your 1971.

To get to the hoses is best done with the rear bumper cover removed.

DUB

 

Dub. I take your advise seriously. I plan to hand this car down to grandchildren and was shocked at the deterioration of the rubber feed line. Steel lines will be installed. It may take some time and patience, fortunately I have both.

I am sure I will learn lots as I go and may seek more advise as things progress!!

Thanks

 

Having [appropriate] synthetic rubber fuel lines in the delivery route BEFORE THE FUEL PUMP should not be a problem. Just make sure that it is "fuel capable" and you should have no issue.

However, having rubber hose in the system AFTER the fuel pump [pressurized fuel in the engine bay!!! ] is not a good idea.

There is probably a higher risk of a metal line sustaining damage and leaking than there is for a fuel-capable synthetic line to cause a leak. Obviously, if that line is 40 years old, age-cracking could be an issue. But, fuel line should be perfectly fine for non-pressurized fuel transfer for 20+ years, IMO.

 

GLAD to read that you are not taking this issue lightly. For what it is worth....INLINE TUBE is where I would get the fuel lines. Just installed all the lines(brake, fuel and vapor) on a 1974...and the fit was excellent...from the others that I have used what were total crap in the way the lines were not precisely bent.

I acknowledge that advances in the industry have come up with some remarkable "things" Much like when plumbing your house ...you can use the plastic tubing and crimp connections...BUT...I am sorry...I still believe in good thick walled copper and or stainless steel tubing myself.

I know that fuel lines are now a plastic tubing...much like the air line tubing for the air brake system of a trailer I worked with many years ago. But the routing of these fuel lines have been often times carefully placed.

I have repaired many twisted/mangled Corvettes and other cars. And I can not honestly remember one that had been hit so hard that it actually broke a fuel line. Kinked...YES Smashed flat...YES. I usually encounter a leaking fuel line that has been patched up with rubber hose.

I can not wrap my head around if a person went through lifting up the body to correctly remove the old steel line...why a person would not install one that was like the original. It would seem to me to be more time consuming having to drill, clamp and secure the rubber hose because it can not bend 90 degrees like a bent steel line can do. I now people try things every day...but like I wrote in my past post. I just can not do it that way....but to each his/her own.

DUB

 

The answer to the last question in the prior post is:

...because lifting the body off the frame--just to get a 'complete' metal line on your C3--is totally **** (unless you are going the full NCRS route). Doing all that work to eliminate one or two short sections of rubber line makes absolutely no sense to me. No one will see it but you and the oil change guy. And I don't even know his name...

 

Being "****" has NOTHING to do with it at all. And going the "NCRS" route has NOTHING to do with it at all either. Also...the car would not have to be lifted all the way off. It can be lifted from the right or left side carefully so the lines can be installed...because I have done many this way will no problems.

You are entitled to your thoughts and opinions...and if you ran your own Corvette shop and had to make sure that your repairs were QUALITY...how long do you think you would stay in business with that type of mentality. Not very long especially with the with the bold area in your above quote says it all.

Your thoughts and mentality on this issue is something that I encounter more times than I like because it is the easy way out...and is NOT RIGHT. Emergency situation.... Maybe if you were broke down on the side of the road out in the middle of the Mojave Desert. And that would only be good enough to get you to civilization so it can be repaired correctly.

Is makes no difference if anybody can see it or not...it is the point that if you cut and spliced in rubber hose...you are asking for trouble.


HUMOR ME...and IMAGINE THIS:

We are business partners and have EVERYTHING we own in our dream of owning and operating a Corvette shop...
and one day... we walked in to the shop one morning too be basically knocked back out the door due to gas fumes....only to discover that a car leaked fuel out all over the shop floor....and with refrigerator and other equipment that runs when we are not be there...makes up both run shut the power off to the shop and begin to try to air out the shop and clean up the gas. TRUST ME...that is NOT a good way to start the day...because I have LIVED this before. My whole life about to go up in flames due to some dumb--- doing something they should not have done. Pissed off does not even come close to how I felt that day.

And I guess you would have held me liable if your Corvette was in the shop for repairs and it got burnt down to the ground due to an issue like this...even though I had nothing to do with this bogus modification to the fuel delivery system.

I have seen more and experienced the most insane bogus repairs than the average Corvette owner....and that I know is a fact.

All I try to do here on the forum is pass along those experiences that I have encountered to help others. I have INTEGRITY and ETHICS when it comes to repairing Corvettes. PERIOD!!! And like a Judge who is one of my customers told me.... "Dub...REMEMBER....YOU are the professional....and YOU know better....which is why people who can not fix their Corvette...bring them to you.....and it is not your job to repair it the way THEY want it...but rather the way it needs to be repaired CORRECTLY....because you are ULTIMATELY LEGALLY LIABLE for all repairs....and if the owner knew what they were doing...they would fix it themselves." I have NEVER forgotten that statement. I have refused to repair many Corvettes due to the owner "feels" that it can be done in a way that does not even come close to the factory design....and want me to do it their way...which is when I tell them to "have at it!!!" and fix it yourself....and GOOD LUCK!.

The fuel supply system is nothing to mess around with. Because I would hate to read that a Forum member's house burnt down due to their Corvette catching on fire due to a crazy move like using a rubber hose in place of a steel line.

I am glad that at least 1977C34ME is going the correct route for safety. The time will be well worth it.

DUB

 

Many C3's have rubber hoses that have survived all 40+ years of their existence without failing. As with any vehicle, all non-metal fuel lines should be inspection of a reasonably frequent basis (at oil changes or mechanical work). If non-flexing hoses are not cracked, their risk of leakage is NIL.

As far as running a Corvette shop: if I were asked to replace a fuel line, I would offer that there are various ways to do that, and that some are much more problematic and costly than others. The customer would make the decision as to how that line would be repaired.

GM made it a single metal line for one reason, and one reason, only. Since they could just bolt it to the frame, IT WAS CHEAPER TO DO IT THAT WAY. Using good quality, synthetic rubber flex line for transferring non-pressurized fuel is a non-issue...especially when that line is protected by the frame rails.

 

You can do as you want and believe what you wish. But there are areas of repairing a Corvette where "options" can be offered to save money without killing quality and longevity...but I draw the line on the areas above that I have written. Because if I do not STAND FIRM on my beliefs in these areas..( FOR EXAMPLE)....it could actually occur one day when a car that was butchered by me...because a customer did not want it fixed correctly...and I gave in for the $$$... it failed and hurt or killed someone you may LOVE....think about that. If that occurred...what would you say or do then...which is why I remember what my Judge customer told me.

If a person in the repair industry does not stand for their principles, ethics and integrity... they are just a ***** for a dollar. PLAIN and SIMPLE. Just because a customer is spending their money....DOES NOT make them in control on how repair should be done. That is like a person telling their doctor how they want him/her to to do "whatever" it is that is needing to be done. See how far that goes.

Mechanics that give into this pressure are just selling out....because if they sell-out...where do they finally draw the line. And people who do "stuff" like this post is all about....well...I think you know what I think about that. And honestly...the amount of repairs I deal with yearly due to previous incorrect repairs would blow your mind.

And I am NOT implying that you are one of these "BOZO'S" who I have to go behind and repair what they have done...BUT I am CLEAR in communicating my position on this issue. Nothing you can do or write will change my position on this....so lets agree that we have opinions/views on this issue that are completely different.

DUB

 

DUB...

I understand and respect your position. You understand mine, as well. We don't need to extend our discussion. The Forum can take what they wish from these posts (if anything).

 

Although I replaced the entire line on my 74 with a compression fitting connecting the two steel lines. I was suggesting the PO of his car may have chose to use a short rubber line to connect instead of a compression fitting like me.
The way you talk, every corvette and especially the 82 vette should of burst into flames with all the rubber hosing on them
I agree these ethanol fuels destroy the old hoses and they should be replaced with the new hoses that are rated for ethanol !

 

I'm with Dub. I don't like the stock rubber hoses on the fuel lines but patching the middle of a fuel line with just clamps and a piece of rubber hose is just asking for trouble.

The stock fuel and vapor lines on my 72 Corvette have a bubble flare close to the ends to prevent the clamped rubber hose from coming off. GM went to the trouble of flaring those ends so the hose is less likely to slip off the metal line. That should be the least you do if you want to go the rubber hose patch route.

I'm replacing my 42-year old steel lines with Inline Tube stainless reproductions. Like Dub said, they are a perfect fit but I took them a step further, replacing the rubber hose with AN braided fuel lines. I cut the bubble flare ends off, installed AN tube nuts and ferules and then flared the cut end of the tube with a 37-degree flaring tool. For practice I did the ends of the stock steel lines first.


To eliminate all the clamped rubber hose connections I also bought a new stainless tank pickup and flared that connection as well. These are the tools I used and the end result: