The builder is a top notch builder so I doubt that the block is cracked. If it was I know that they would replace it no cost. Valve covers look good to me but I am going to have to give it another look tonight.

Can anyone explain why I am pushing oil out of the PCV grommet?

On the positive side the Packers just signed Juilus Peppers so that makes me feel a little better!

 

cheap valve covers with a poor baffeling system some times cause oil leaking from that area, but I'd suspect blowby from the rings not being seated yet, like I stated before, all the info I could find when I experienced this stated that modern rings should seal right away, but it seemed to take an extended period for mine to seat for some reason. I'd check that the pvc system is working, take some oil and put some miles on her.

 

Bluedawg,

So essentially I am waiting on my rings to seat? I would estimate that I only have 70 miles MAX on the engine since it was built and installed. Can a faulty PVC and the rings not seating cause these issues with the pan?

Did your pan leak while you were waiting on the rings to seat? If not how could you tell that they were not seated?

 

I don't recall my pan leaking, but pressure in the crank case can causes all kinds of leaks. Being 3000 miles from you and your vette I can only assume. I'd try driving it for a while, check the oil frequently. Hopefully your rings are just being stubborn. What do the plugs look like?

 

engine braking will seat the rings. Downshift to slow down and don't be afraid to wind it up. 5000 rpm won't hurt it.
If the PCV is working you should have no crankcase pressure that will force oil out. Timing cover seal at the balancer will run down to the U at the pan and work down alongside the pan. They leak quite often and you can't see it because it is behind the damper, especially if the damper is used or the seal damaged on installation. The hub on the damper spins inside this rubber seal. If you have a chrome cover it is likely leaking between the timing cover and the oil pan. They always leak. Chrome don't hold adhesive or seal the gasket well..

 

If you think it's blowby from poorly seated rings you have little time to seat the rings or it may be too late already.
It's true if using moly faced rings that the finish surface in the cylinder will be smoother and break will occur sooner.
The spring pressure from the ring alone cannot mate the ring to the cylinder sufficiently for a good seal.
That pressure has to be provided by the combustion process and the pressure exerted there.
Read this. It's primarily for motorcycles but it makes good points about breaking in a motor.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

Stupid question how do you engine break with an auto trans. I have an idea but just want to make sure. Im assuming its just moving from 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Also I dont have a chrome timing chain cover.

Headed home going to see if the PVC is sucking if not that is probably my issue or at least I hope so anyways. Otherwise it goes back to the shop and I will start practicing my two handed hammer toss.

Keep yall posted.

 

Oh and the plugs look good pulled them yesterday.

 

It may be worthwhile to pull the timing cover. $20 piece may solve your problem. I know it is an effort to pull the damper but then you just remove the front 8 pan bolts and then loosen the rest...

Question: Does your timing cover require a FAT seal? Early small blocks required fat (or thin?) front seal.

I would also look at the timing cover gasket. Perhaps it is leaking.

With all you have done in that area short of timing cover replacement, may be worth doing.

Also, is there any sign of leakage from the bolt that threads into the face of the block beside the fuel pump mounting point? The bolt threads into the fuel pump pushrod shaft. I applied some black rtv to that bolt when I attached my A/C compressor mounting rod to it.

 

Look two posts up.... find a hill and compression brake it several times.

 

My plasma Molly coated rings( what ever plasma Molly is) took a while to seat. They did how ever seat.

How little time and explain the to late please?

 

If your cruising down the road and need to stop drop it down into 2nd, let it slow down some, drop it into first. In town leave it in first and let off the gas to slow down for intersections. A downhill helps lengthen out the braking. The downshift and engine braking forces the rings into the cylinder.

 

Ok so when home ran it for 40 miles. Got home parked it let it idle no leaks. Shut it off and there was four drips one about 5 in in front of the oil filter two by the front of the pan and timing chain cover and one on the passenger side 2 bolts behind the front of the pan.

Got under the car saw a trail running from the valve cover drivers side all the way down the block underside of the valve cover is soaked. Looked top side you can see where the oil is running out of the PCV grommet down the top of the valve cover down the side soaking the under part of the valve cover and running down the block which explains the drivers side drip by the oil filter.

Question.....could this be the cause can it leak form that grommet down the front of the block and both sides? If so.....I think I might have solved the issue I just don't see how it could run down the drivers side soak the bottom of the valve cover while also running down the front of the block into the front of the pan and just a little bit back on the passenger side......is this possible? Pan looks sealed tight as tight can be.

 

Ok so out the other side around the breather do you have an oily mist around the breather on the valve cover?

 

Not a mist but soaked with a trail it's by pcv not breather. Breather is on the other side. If you push down on the pcv oil will come out of the rubber grommet

 

Once again, are there baffles under the breathers on the valve covers?

 

Yes there are baffles on the valve covers

 

This is the way I understand it. The cylinder is honed and the surface left behind is a certain roughness depending on the type of ring used. A moly faced ring uses a smoother surface than say a chrome faced one.
The surface roughness serves two purposes.
One is to wear the face of the new rings to match the surface of the cylinder.
The other is to retain a certain amount of oil for lubrication.
When the cylinder is freshly honed it has sharp peaks left on the surface. The peaks cut into the face of the ring and "mate" the ring to that cylinder.
Problem is these peaks wear off quickly. So in order to cut into the face of the ring lots of pressure is needed. Otherwise you round off the peaks without really cutting the ring surface and between the peaks or the " valleys" you end up with excessive oil retention. That oil cooks and turns into a glaze. A glazed surface will produce less power more blowby and increased oil consumption. How much that is, is dependent on how well or poorly the rings seated with the cylinder surface.
So the longer you take to properly break in the rings the greater the likelihood of poor sealing since your peaks are still wearing down but not cutting into the ring face very well. Eventually it is too late and the peaks are all rounded off and unable to cut into the face of the ring.
You still have a seal just a less quality one prone to any or all the aforementioned problems.

 

Found this about OEM cylinders. Basically they require almost no break in. Us regular guys don't have access to this.

Dave Riley of Gehring L.P. in Farmington Hills, MI, a supplier of honing equipment to original equipment manufacturers, says almost all OEM internal combustion gasoline engines in North America today are being rough honed with diamond abrasives.

Riley says the OEM focus is on using water soluble synthetic honing coolants, which means diamond abrasives because vitrified conventional abrasives require honing oil. The other industry trend he sees is that cylinder bores are being respecified to smoother finishes.

“We’re talking 0.15 to 0.3 Ra finishes that are extremely smooth,” says Riley. “They’re doing this to further reduce emissions. A lot of this is being driven by ring technology because rings can now survive in conditions that provide much less oil. However, in my opinion these new surface finish specifications are reaching the limits of technology.”

One of the things that the OEMs do to achieve high quality bore finishes is to use computer numerically controlled (CNC) honing machines. The cutting speeds of these machines are 50 to 75 percent faster than what was used 10 years ago. Faster cutting speeds allows the abrasives to cut smoother, and finer abrasives can be used for a smoother finish without sacrificing cycle time.

Riley says there’s a dramatic difference in the amount of time the OEMs allow to hone a cylinder versus what a typical aftermarket engine builder or production engine rebuilder spends on the same process. He says OEMs typically spend only about 15 to 20 seconds to hone a bore with automated honing equipment. By comparison, it can take up to several minutes to manually hone a bore using a power honing machine.

“The OEM machines are completely automated and automatically control bore size and shape. They also measure and inspect 100 percent of the bores, and can sort by bore size if they run bore grades,” he says.

“As the need to reproduce OEM finishes in the aftermarket grows, so too will the demand for honing equipment that can meet these specifications. This will obviously have an impact on honing costs,” Riley explains. “We are developing a low cost, CNC-controlled single spindle honing machine for the aftermarket. The operator would load the block and the machine would automatically hone the bores to OEM tolerances.”

Riley says Gehring also offers custom honing services for low volume engine prototype development and performance engines.

Cylinder bore quality plays a huge role in reducing friction and blowby for improved engine performance and durability. Better bore geometry also contributes to better sealing and more usable power. Riley says a lot of performance engine builders are hot honing their blocks to more accurately simulate actual running conditions. They also use torque plates when honing (some with simulated manifolds to further stress the block), and may even bolt a bellhousing to the block to reproduce the stresses and loads the block will experience in a vehicle.

“For OEM production applications, we have developed clamping and other methods to stress the block while it is being honed,” says Riley. This is done to further improve bore geometry and sealing.


Also found this to see what kind of finish you're looking at based on ring type.

http://www.enginehones.com/technical.html

 

Ree,

Thanks for the tips and good read! Lots of good info in there.the grommet will get fixed tomorrow so that solves one spot. Still leaking at the front of the pan which is blowing down the passenger pan rail. Could possibly be the timing cover as some have mentioned. But I did find two bolts holes on the passenger side the drivers side has the power steering mounted there. These two bolts are right by the fuel pump....can these holes leak?