6.2 MPG Problem
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 925
Likes: 7
I think this has been resolved already, but this shot shows a engine on TDC on the compression stroke on No. 6. The dots are aligned or will align perfectly with just a hair of clockwise motion of the crank. The distributor rotor should be pointing at No. 6 tower. To align the engine with TDC on the compression stroke on No. 1, rotate the crank 360 degrees. The engine absolutely will not run if the cam and crank are 180 degrees out of phase.
I just swapped cams and degreed it recently. Degree wheel, mics, the whole 9 yards.
I just swapped cams and degreed it recently. Degree wheel, mics, the whole 9 yards.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
I think this has been resolved already, but this shot shows a engine on TDC on the compression stroke on No. 6. The dots are aligned or will align perfectly with just a hair of clockwise motion of the crank. The distributor rotor should be pointing at No. 6 tower.
In deed, it is pointing to #6 tower.
To align the engine with TDC on the compression stroke on No. 1, rotate the crank 360 degrees.
Or, anotherway to put it, rotate the engine so the CAM gear's dot is at the very top.
The engine absolutely will not run if the cam and crank are 180 degrees out of phase.
Without doubt!
I just swapped cams and degreed it recently. Degree wheel, mics, the whole 9 yards.
And I'll bet ya got everything dead nuts on!
In deed, it is pointing to #6 tower.
To align the engine with TDC on the compression stroke on No. 1, rotate the crank 360 degrees.
Or, anotherway to put it, rotate the engine so the CAM gear's dot is at the very top.
The engine absolutely will not run if the cam and crank are 180 degrees out of phase.
Without doubt!
I just swapped cams and degreed it recently. Degree wheel, mics, the whole 9 yards.
And I'll bet ya got everything dead nuts on!
The timing chain/gears cover is going on this morning, along with the new harmonic balancer, pulleys, etc. Hopefully I can get it timed and running by the end of the day. Thanks for the input.
Steve
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 925
Likes: 7
Not need to thank me, I'm just bringing up the rear on this thread. And hope I haven't PO'd anybody that basically said just what I did.
Good luck with getting it running right.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
Is it on yet?
I've got the HB on this far and am now meeting more resistance (could be from the crank timing gear keyway maybe??). I think it does, but can't remember for sure, if the HB goes on a bit further. Can someone look at their's and let me know if I should keep going or not.
Thanks in advance.
Steve
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 1,170
From: Hermosa
I've got the HB on this far and am now meeting more resistance (could be from the crank timing gear keyway maybe??). I think it does, but can't remember for sure, if the HB goes on a bit further. Can someone look at their's and let me know if I should keep going or not.
Thanks in advance.
Steve
I had to heat mine in the oven to 250* in order to get it on without scraping metal off the inner diameter of the hole in the balancer.
When I measured the hole it was .004" smaller than the diameter of the of crank snout. It supposed to be an interference fit. .004" is a lot but it did go on after heating it for about 25 minutes in the oven.
Heating it up makes the hole bigger.
At this point you could end up with a broken installer or a shaved hole if you continue due to clearance between the hole and the crank snout.
Then be quick about putting it on so that it does not cool down or transfer too much of it's heat to the crank snout before seating all the way down.
If you pull it off and find the hole shaved it could be too late.
You don't want the balancer spinning off center because it has a non centered hole.
Last edited by REELAV8R; May 23, 2014 at 03:13 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
If you have a puller, pull it off.
I had to heat mine in the oven to 250* in order to get it on without scraping metal off the inner diameter of the hole in the balancer.
When I measured the hole it was .004" smaller than the diameter of the of crank snout. It supposed to be an interference fit. .004" is a lot but it did go on after heating it for about 25 minutes in the oven.
Heating it up makes the hole bigger.
At this point you could end up with a broken installer or a shaved hole if you continue due to clearance between the hole and the crank snout.
Then be quick about putting it on so that it does not cool down or transfer too much of it's heat to the crank snout before seating all the way down.
If you pull it off and find the hole shaved it could be too late.
You don't want the balancer spinning off center because it has a non centered hole.
I had to heat mine in the oven to 250* in order to get it on without scraping metal off the inner diameter of the hole in the balancer.
When I measured the hole it was .004" smaller than the diameter of the of crank snout. It supposed to be an interference fit. .004" is a lot but it did go on after heating it for about 25 minutes in the oven.
Heating it up makes the hole bigger.
At this point you could end up with a broken installer or a shaved hole if you continue due to clearance between the hole and the crank snout.
Then be quick about putting it on so that it does not cool down or transfer too much of it's heat to the crank snout before seating all the way down.
If you pull it off and find the hole shaved it could be too late.
You don't want the balancer spinning off center because it has a non centered hole.
BOOM!
I'm #ucked now. No previous experience with this proceedure, plus a cheap Taiwan **** installation tool, all adds up to desaster.
Other novices PLEASE NOTE!
It's an unnecessary setback for sure.
I have to drill/easyout/etc that busted off threaded piece before I can really do anything next. I will have to make a cylindrical "jig" that fits snug inside the balancer, that has a centered hole in which a left turning drill bit of the proper size will fit, and start drilling.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 1,170
From: Hermosa
Your info came too late.
BOOM!
I'm #ucked now. No previous experience with this proceedure, plus a cheap Taiwan **** installation tool, all adds up to desaster.
Other novices PLEASE NOTE!
It's an unnecessary setback for sure.
I have to drill/easyout/etc that busted off threaded piece before I can really do anything next. I will have to make a cylindrical "jig" that fits snug inside the balancer, that has a centered hole in which a left turning drill bit of the proper size will fit, and start drilling.
BOOM!
I'm #ucked now. No previous experience with this proceedure, plus a cheap Taiwan **** installation tool, all adds up to desaster.
Other novices PLEASE NOTE!
It's an unnecessary setback for sure.
I have to drill/easyout/etc that busted off threaded piece before I can really do anything next. I will have to make a cylindrical "jig" that fits snug inside the balancer, that has a centered hole in which a left turning drill bit of the proper size will fit, and start drilling.
You should be able to get the puller to work if that bolt broke off below flush on the crank and pull the balancer off. At least it would be out of the way.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
Just a thought.
Steve
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 7
From: Beringen
Take your engine out of the car to take a good look at how the snout of your crank is otherwise you risk causing more damage than anything else.
Then get the engine to someone who knows how to deal with this and have them look at it, get the remaining portion of the stud out and put the balancer back on.
This type of deal is really frustrating. Last weekend I took off my oil pan to change the seal. I took off the oil pump to check some things and clean and put it on. Turns out that I used the wrong bolt to put my old pump on. Something I didn't know was that there are 2 different bolts, a long one and a short one. I used a short one with the result that I pulled the vulcano out of the bearing cap. Needless to say that is not a funny moment.
I feel for you..
Oh and get a decent tool next time.
Then get the engine to someone who knows how to deal with this and have them look at it, get the remaining portion of the stud out and put the balancer back on.
This type of deal is really frustrating. Last weekend I took off my oil pan to change the seal. I took off the oil pump to check some things and clean and put it on. Turns out that I used the wrong bolt to put my old pump on. Something I didn't know was that there are 2 different bolts, a long one and a short one. I used a short one with the result that I pulled the vulcano out of the bearing cap. Needless to say that is not a funny moment.
I feel for you..
Oh and get a decent tool next time.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,036
Likes: 2
From: Huntingburg Indiana
Did you try to remove the broken piece of the tool? You may be able to get a small screwdriver in there and unscrew it. Sometimes when a bolt breaks like that it doesn't have tension on it anymore and backs out easily. Sometimes it doesn't, but I would try before pulling the motor out.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
Did you try to remove the broken piece of the tool? You may be able to get a small screwdriver in there and unscrew it. Sometimes when a bolt breaks like that it doesn't have tension on it anymore and backs out easily. Sometimes it doesn't, but I would try before pulling the motor out.
You're right. I should try and see if it moves. Pulling the motor is not an option right now. If I remove anything, it would be the fan shroud & maybe even the radiator, to get better access to the works. Now if my 383 rebuild were ready, HEY!; an excellent excuse to pull it!
(Right now, I can't even deal with a 190 hp mill.)Steve
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,036
Likes: 2
From: Huntingburg Indiana
Well, when I screwed the tool into the crank, I did put some torque on it. Nothing super tight, but maybe 15 ft.lbs. Dammit. I didn't know!
You're right. I should try and see if it moves. Pulling the motor is not an option right now. If I remove anything, it would be the fan shroud & maybe even the radiator, to get better access to the works. Now if my 383 rebuild were ready, HEY!; an excellent excuse to pull it! (Right now, I can't even deal with a 190 hp mill.)
Steve
You're right. I should try and see if it moves. Pulling the motor is not an option right now. If I remove anything, it would be the fan shroud & maybe even the radiator, to get better access to the works. Now if my 383 rebuild were ready, HEY!; an excellent excuse to pull it!
(Right now, I can't even deal with a 190 hp mill.)Steve
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
You may get lucky. If the threads on the tool bottomed out in the crank, it may be difficult to remove due to the tension on the threads. If the bolt head in the center of the tool tightened against the crank, it may come out because the tension was on the bolt head. With that part broken off, there's no tension on the threads, unless there was stretching or galling on the threads. Kinda hard to explain, but sometimes this is the case. I hope you can get it out easily.
I just got off the phone with a machinist friend. Very experienced in metals and a great guy. He also said to take the balancer off first, look in there, and see what you can do with it as far as turning it out. He also believes Easy outs aren't the answer. Would have better luck with a reverse tap if drilling became necessary.
Sooooo... off comes the balancer.
Steve
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
The thing that makes this extraction so tough: the threads don't start at the very end of the crank. The start of the threading is countersunk a bit. If it was a flush break at the very end, I wouldn't be so upset about it.
Steve
Last edited by Cavu2u; May 24, 2014 at 06:19 AM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
From: Woodland California