Muncie side case stripped bolt
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,364
Likes: 1,588
From: los altos hills california
Muncie side case stripped bolt
Have one bolt which is not gripping and consequently have a leak. I would like to try to fix this with a minimum of pain and have a couple of thoughts
1) Put a stud in there with some thread locker.
2) Some sort of expanding bolt? I halfway remember that there is such a thing used on headers. Anybody know of such a thing?
3) Retap the hole for a larger bolt
4) Put a heli-coil in and use a smaller bolt
5) These things
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-th...nserts/=s71d32
Suggestions are welcome. This is not a high strength application, just need to clamp down on the gasket a bit more to stop the leak
1) Put a stud in there with some thread locker.
2) Some sort of expanding bolt? I halfway remember that there is such a thing used on headers. Anybody know of such a thing?
3) Retap the hole for a larger bolt
4) Put a heli-coil in and use a smaller bolt
5) These things
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-th...nserts/=s71d32
Suggestions are welcome. This is not a high strength application, just need to clamp down on the gasket a bit more to stop the leak
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,294
Likes: 2,754
From: Charlotte NC
If a heli-coil will not work...I use these a lot of times and prefer them.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-th...nserts/=s71jd9
You can also use some of the thread repair material that is an epoxy liquid that you mix...much like JB Weld...but it allows you to use a release agent on the bolt threads you want to use...so when you fill in the CLEAN hole....and install the bolt with the release agent on it...when it cures...you can remove the bolt and that's it. I have use this method and it works really well and can take a lot of torque also. It has everything to do with getting it prepped and clean.
DUB
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-th...nserts/=s71jd9
You can also use some of the thread repair material that is an epoxy liquid that you mix...much like JB Weld...but it allows you to use a release agent on the bolt threads you want to use...so when you fill in the CLEAN hole....and install the bolt with the release agent on it...when it cures...you can remove the bolt and that's it. I have use this method and it works really well and can take a lot of torque also. It has everything to do with getting it prepped and clean.
DUB
Limping across the line
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,299
Likes: 109
From: Peoria Az
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,364
Likes: 1,588
From: los altos hills california
The Form-A-Thread sounds promising, I did not know it existed. However there were mixed reviews on Amazon so I think I will hunt some down and practice with it first. The leak that's there right now may screw this approach up.
I did not realize DUB that neither my nor your McMaster Carr URL wouldn't go deeper than the threaded insert master page. The insert I referenced read like this
Loctite® adhesive on both internal and external threads keeps inserts in place and holds screws tight. The adhesive reaches full strength after 72 hours and resists pressure up to 6,000 psi. Considered thick-wall inserts, they're made from black-phosphate steel and have a thread class of 2A external and 2B internal.
anyway thanks guys, thanks something promising to try.
I did not realize DUB that neither my nor your McMaster Carr URL wouldn't go deeper than the threaded insert master page. The insert I referenced read like this
Loctite® adhesive on both internal and external threads keeps inserts in place and holds screws tight. The adhesive reaches full strength after 72 hours and resists pressure up to 6,000 psi. Considered thick-wall inserts, they're made from black-phosphate steel and have a thread class of 2A external and 2B internal.
anyway thanks guys, thanks something promising to try.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,111
Likes: 32
From: Damascus MD
side cover
Based on my very recent experience heli coils work well. If you plan to torque to factory specs. may as well heli coil them all. That aluminum is pretty soft.
At least this is my experience.
Bill
At least this is my experience.
Bill
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,781
Likes: 15
From: Oxford Ohio
Tranny on or off the car? If you have it off, have the holes welded and re tap to the original size. Mark and use the shift arm cover as the template and a transfer punch. The only problem with the heli-coil is getting a good seal between the heli-coil and the tranny body. I guess enough sealer will seal anything though. Depends on how well you want the repair.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 878
Likes: 55
From: Deep South Denmark
I used these (available on the US E-bay too):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V-Coil-Thr...item35d6fad276
That was for the lower rear cover bolts that don't go trough (blind hole), so no leak issues. For through holes you can use sealer.
This way you will still have the correct thread size.
The transmission will have to come out though.
/Karsten
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V-Coil-Thr...item35d6fad276
That was for the lower rear cover bolts that don't go trough (blind hole), so no leak issues. For through holes you can use sealer.
This way you will still have the correct thread size.
The transmission will have to come out though.
/Karsten
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,294
Likes: 2,754
From: Charlotte NC
ignatz,
Often times the mixed reviews is due to someone NOT following the instructions and leave out a very important step...much like leaving the flour out of the recipe to make cookies.
At O'Reillys and others there is also a two part putty that you mold together with your hand ...and when it cures it is hard as all get out. I know many drag racers that have used it and the repairs are still holding. Just a thought...because knowing that you are not dealing with a high torque area...it also can work.
DUB
Often times the mixed reviews is due to someone NOT following the instructions and leave out a very important step...much like leaving the flour out of the recipe to make cookies.
At O'Reillys and others there is also a two part putty that you mold together with your hand ...and when it cures it is hard as all get out. I know many drag racers that have used it and the repairs are still holding. Just a thought...because knowing that you are not dealing with a high torque area...it also can work.
DUB
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Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,364
Likes: 1,588
From: los altos hills california
ignatz,
Often times the mixed reviews is due to someone NOT following the instructions and leave out a very important step...much like leaving the flour out of the recipe to make cookies.
At O'Reillys and others there is also a two part putty that you mold together with your hand ...and when it cures it is hard as all get out. I know many drag racers that have used it and the repairs are still holding. Just a thought...because knowing that you are not dealing with a high torque area...it also can work.
DUB
Often times the mixed reviews is due to someone NOT following the instructions and leave out a very important step...much like leaving the flour out of the recipe to make cookies.
At O'Reillys and others there is also a two part putty that you mold together with your hand ...and when it cures it is hard as all get out. I know many drag racers that have used it and the repairs are still holding. Just a thought...because knowing that you are not dealing with a high torque area...it also can work.
DUB
It is the same with all reviews it seems. Netflix, Amazon … And someone who is unhappy with something is more likely to post a negative review than someone who said "hey that went pretty well, I think I will tell everybody"!
I have a little test case setting up on my work bench to see what release agent might work best with JB Weld - some silicone lube, some Briwax (beeswax and carnauba), and some shoe polish. I will probably wait for the Loctite product to arrive by delivery as I couldn't find any. Loctite's online directions surprised me a bit, half fill the hole and then pressurize the stuff up past the threads by screwing in a bolt coated with a release agent, working it up and down a bit. So their compound may be more liquid than JB weld which I don't think would squeeze up the threads very well. And of course that squeeze doesn't work for a through hole but I halfway remember this isn't one.
And as to where the transmission is, it is in the car so I would like to get out of this with a minimum of involvement.
Have some other work to do under the car and am waiting for other deliveries from UPS, so this won't get fixed for a few days yet. After two years of restoration this is the only leak I have. Gotta fix it!
Racer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 296
Likes: 16
From: Edmonton Alberta
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,364
Likes: 1,588
From: los altos hills california
success, but it wasn't easy
Despite extreme care on my part with dimensions and timing of the epoxy and bench testing, the Loctite product didn't work out. Felt like the bolt was going to go, but near the end, and still not at the seated depth of the sacrificial bolt, it bottomed out on something and the epoxy material disintegrated.
So now what? I can't get a drill motor in there to insert a heli-coil. I sure don't want to pull the transmission. And I don't want to epoxy a stud in place.......
Started looking at dimensions and decided that if I deliberately stripped out the threads out by putting a nut on a bolt and turning the nut in to get what was left pulled out, I would get pretty close to the heli-coil tap size, in this case 21/64". Same trick on the outer case cover with a bigger tap and bolt. Lotta cleaning and oiling and measuring and the coil is in and the bolt (the upper bolt on the reverse switch bracket by the way) is torqued to 15 ft-lbs. That feels pretty snug. It's marked with red paint. I'm stopping there. The spec is 22 ft-lbs.
The heli-coil package directions didn't give a max torque and anyway this is in aluminum. No quicky answers on the internet so I am declaring success.
So now what? I can't get a drill motor in there to insert a heli-coil. I sure don't want to pull the transmission. And I don't want to epoxy a stud in place.......
Started looking at dimensions and decided that if I deliberately stripped out the threads out by putting a nut on a bolt and turning the nut in to get what was left pulled out, I would get pretty close to the heli-coil tap size, in this case 21/64". Same trick on the outer case cover with a bigger tap and bolt. Lotta cleaning and oiling and measuring and the coil is in and the bolt (the upper bolt on the reverse switch bracket by the way) is torqued to 15 ft-lbs. That feels pretty snug. It's marked with red paint. I'm stopping there. The spec is 22 ft-lbs.
The heli-coil package directions didn't give a max torque and anyway this is in aluminum. No quicky answers on the internet so I am declaring success.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 19
From: Manhattan Beach Ca
If you're talking about the plate where the backup switch attaches too, I had stripped lower bolt also but just used JB weld, let sit for 24 hours and now no problems what so ever. If I have to unscrew again then maybe I have to do all over.
I know it's bubba but it did work. My.02
I know it's bubba but it did work. My.02
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,909
Likes: 26
From: Clymer PA
I would use a heli-coil, I stripped a bolt hole out on my CRANKSHAFT the first time around and used one with zero problems. I was told that NASCAR guys heli-coil all of their bolt holes because they are stronger (I don't know how true that is). I can say though that if it worked in my crankshaft spinning it to 6500-7000RPMs....it will work fine for your Muncie plate 
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 234
Likes: 3
From: Johnston Rhode Island
Please don't use epoxy or loctite. These types of things are band aides.
Use a thread repair kit vs. a tap and die set. Thread repair kits were made to fix damaged threads. Tap and die sets were made to cut new threads. If the thread repair doesn't work then go to the heli-coil.
Use a thread repair kit vs. a tap and die set. Thread repair kits were made to fix damaged threads. Tap and die sets were made to cut new threads. If the thread repair doesn't work then go to the heli-coil.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,364
Likes: 1,588
From: los altos hills california
Please don't use epoxy or loctite. These types of things are band aides.
Use a thread repair kit vs. a tap and die set. Thread repair kits were made to fix damaged threads. Tap and die sets were made to cut new threads. If the thread repair doesn't work then go to the heli-coil.
Use a thread repair kit vs. a tap and die set. Thread repair kits were made to fix damaged threads. Tap and die sets were made to cut new threads. If the thread repair doesn't work then go to the heli-coil.