Dave, Please give us a run-down on all of the parts/specs/#'s you used from air cleaner to exhaust tip. Given your dyno numbers, I feel more confident that boring my 353 to 355, , carb refresh, with a set of flat-tops with 2 reliefs and some light porting of my 72cc IE's, I will be in the 400/400 ballpark.

 

Any chance you can post those dyno sheets ..

 

Go To TedH's thread on adjusting for a 383. I answered most of the particulars there. Dave.

 

So you do not have an engine Dyno sheet ?

I would think if you have smaller heads made of iron , basic parts and make more power then most 383 crate motors you would have the actual dyno sheet .. I know I would have gotten it ..

 

Diehard, You, know I wasn't going to answer you because I figured you were going to head in this direction. Out of all the engines we hear about on this forum, and all with varying discriptions and claims we take what we hear and we decide what we want to take away from it. When I was discussing and asking alot of questions on what I should build, many many people gave me there input. Could I hope to copy exactly what they did, could I expect the same results, could maybe they were mistaken about some part, or left out some feature that I wouldn't know about. So I listened, and made my decisions. For better or worse, it's a crap shoot when your not experienced. So how many of those other engines spoken of on this forum showed dyno sheets or some other "illrefutable evidence". So basically your calling me a liar. And that's why I wasn't going to answer you. So basically when there are people like you who just want to try to throw dirt on others, I do believe they should be called out. I don't want to waist my time doing things like this, but you will get your dyno sheets, and then maybe you should just go away. Dave.

 

If questions offend you that is on you.

You said you where building a 383 not a 358.

Your using a cam and heads that would most likely not make that hp , but could it ?

Well maybe, I just do not see 467 hp parts in a Your 358 , matter of fact it would be out powering an aluminum headed higher compression bigger cam 383 build.


Could that dyno slip be in error or off somehow ? It does report errors ..

But in the end it only matters at all because we all use forums to make decisions. It makes life easy and hopefully we can count on the info by which we make our choices..

Have fun with it , stock vs your build puts you way ahead of the game ..

 

We don't know what other things may have been done during assembly with this motor things like port work can make a big difference in the way the engine works out, and a 350 vs 383 horsepower is very close but the 383 will have an inherent torque advantage. it may be a cam was substituted also. the big factor in this case is Richie Zul, you guys apparently don't know who he is but if anyone could make that power out of that engine believe me he is the guy. the 3 best engine builders i have known are 1. Sonny Leonard 2. "general" Lee Edwards 3. Richie Zul. I know i could have never beaten any of those Guys, Ask Warren Johnson about Richie.

 

Ya know I don't want to leave this with hard feelings. I believe I answered all questions to the extent that I was able and also my computer time. I didn't want to chase down the dyno slips because they were in a file at my shop, not where the computer is at my house. So the statements are all fact, and not needing illrefutable documentation. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS A 383 STROKER MOTOR. That's what was said. Earlier. Towards the end of my build discussion I said that the builder talked me into a 383. there's nothing more I can say.

 

Those are nice numbers Dave, should be a fun ride!

 

A 383 with more torque than HP and peak power right at 6000 RPM will be a blast on the street. The readout looks screwy between 3700 and 4200.

 

That whole sheet is a mess .. Engine cubic inch is wrong . numbers fall and rise like crazy and I just think the guy who ran that dyno was drinking or doing something completely wrong.

That is not me calling anyone a liar , it is me making an observation based on this entire topic concluding with hp/tq output ..

 

Looks like a fun engine, I think you'll be completely thrilled with it.

DO MA NEU!

 

Dave,

Be sure to share your seat-of-the-pants factor once you unleash the beast!

Also, if you have a tire burnout/smokeshow video, that would be cool too

You helped me rationalize going to a 355, maybe with a fresh rotating assembly and keeping the top end pieces I have as it is a good combo. Thanks for sharing your build info. Much appreciated.

 

Well it's been awhile but i always intended to give you guys an update when I got this thing running. i'm going to attach a link to a video which I hope will work. i've had some teething problems with getting the car completely ready and this video is not the best in terms of how well the car is working now. But it is the best that I can do for now. The weather is setting in and I'm near done with bringing the car out when I can get someone to video it. The car is running very well but the video doesn't demonstrate the engines ability too well because we were interrupted while doing it and I got distracted then did not launch like I intended too.
Don't know if I will have time this winter to get to doing another video so this is the best that I can do for now.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8zfj168461...%20PM.mov?dl=0

So now I have taken the time to look up the sheets that the builder gave which to the best of my knowledge show what was built into the engine. Here it is:
- SCAT rotating assembly, RK-383-SIL
- Cast crank, internally balanced
- Forged I-beam rods, 5.7"
- Hastings Moly rings
- Sealed power Hyperuetectic, flat top pistons
- Double roller timing set, LT98150
- hardened, 1-piece push rods, LPR5-7200
- Edelbrock Performer Intake, 21011
- Melling HV oil pump, M155 HV
- Hr series, 650 cfm, Quickfuel, double pumper, mechanical secondaries, electric choke.
- 1987 - 1990 GM, OEM, roller block, w/one piece rear main seal
- Comp Cams, 08-423-8 cam, duration @ 0.50" = 224/230, lift w/1.5 rocker = .502/.510, LSA=110.
- Comp Cams, beehive springs, 26-986-16.
- Crane electronic distributor module, w/coil, 750-1715. installed in original cable tach drive distributor.
- Comp Cams, composite distributor gear. #12200
- Flex Plate, LPC-1011
- Dart Iron Eagle 180 Heads, 101-100-10, w/72cc chambers
- Stainless Steel Valve kit, HK-400
- Comp Cams, roller tip rockers, 1412-16
- ARP bolts
- Dampner Powerbond, LPB 1046-NE
- Hooker Ceramic coated headers, w/ 1-5/8" primaries, 2 i/2" collector outlets
- MACHINE WORK DONE :
- Bore-Hone
- true deck
- align hone
- shot peen block
- magnaflux block
- blend valve job
- assemble heads
- port match, heads & intake
- set bearing clearances
- degree cam
- cc heads, figure compression, 10.4: 1
- balance crank
- balance flexplate

 

Sounds good and I am sure it runs good as well.I bet a 750 would wake it up a little.

 

Yeh, maybe. But it does need alittlle tuning. When I did that video I didn't really put my foot in it. I was getting my wife to do it with her Ipad at the same time that we were watching our new grand daughter. the baby was getting really restless, it was cold out, the wind was blowing, it didn't go down well. Another reason that I didn't put my foot into it was that when I was doing some work on the carb, I read a section in the instructions that came with the carb that you MUST install a throttle stop on your gas pedal to ensure that you don't damage the carb. I haven't had the time to look into what the heck they are talking about and everytime I go to put my foot into it, in the back of my mind I think of that sentence and I pull out of it. I've got to look into that soon, but I have my throttle cable adjusted to pretty close to WOT and don't see how that can hurt anything, but since Quickfuel wrote it I've got to look into it. I know the engine is strong enough to put the car sideways up an on ramp about a week before the video was taken. So I have some teething issues to work thru. another thing that I have run into, is that when I was running the engine the first couple of times out, I would take it up the interstate about 8 miles and turn around and run it at varying speeds on the way home. the 8 or so miles of interstate and then maybe 3 or 4 miles of city boulevards and suburb streets. When I got it back to my garage, I eventually would check the spark plugs before going out again. Each time the plugs were very rich, I mean absolutely black. So I decided to change the jets and went down a couple of jet sizes. I did this twice so I had then the original jets, with two smaller sizes. Driving it on the same route, each time the plugs were still very rich when I got home. And the last time I changed the jets I also put in a new Power Valve, although the original power valve tested good. I found it hard to believe that the jets would still be rich. So I went to a hotter plug. and this time when I did the test drive I took some tools with me and when I got about 5 miles out the interstate, I pulled over and shut it off quickly and it dieseled. I pulled 3 plugs right on the side of the interstate, and they were unbelieably clean. I don't mean white, but just very clean. I though, whoa, it's way too lean now. But when I got back to my garage I pulled the same plugs and they were black.
so I haven't figured this out yet, and don't understand why it is so lean at highway speeds but is apparently running rich at slower speeds. I've got to look into what is going on with the carb. I also have not had a chance to look at the timing because that was set by the guys running dyno. i haven't looked at it. i kind of suspect that they have everything set up for max dyno horsepower and it might not be the best for the street. This thing also has 3:08 gears and a 1900 stall converter. 4000 rpms is near 100 mph.

 

Sure hope you set the end play on the cam with a cam button??

One other item you'll need to watch closely (if I caught all the parts correctly) is the C.R. With iron heads anything over 10:1 MAY be present a tuning problem, more so with a small cam like that 224*. In the 500 HP range we use between 236* and 244*, still with nice driving manners. With aluminum heads the 10.5:1 C.R. is slightly forgiving.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. With respect the 350" vs 383" HP numbers, anyone can nowadays bolt together a 480/500 HP 383", not so easy with a 350". We do this "stuff" all day long!

 

I understand you Gary. As you can see reading back thru the threads, The engine was built by a pro in a pro shop which builds racing engines all day long. I'm not a pro engine builder so I have to rely on somebody, just like your customers. But I'm here to listen and learn. the issue about the cr was discussed extensively before the build started. My builder insisted that this would be a very streetable engine. And I think it is. It has excellent street manners right now and I haven't hardly touched it. Since the carb is a double pumper w/mechanical linkage I notice that Quick Fuel supplies 3 different "links" between the pri & sec side of the carb. I may be running with the secondaries more open at slow speed than is necessary. I have spent 40 + years as a hobbist working mostly with GM cars and carburettors, which means mostly Q-jets. I have limited experence with holley and holley clone carbs. but i am still able to learn. As a matter of fact this whole project is for the purpose of doing something different and learn new things. I appreciate the conversations and experience on the forum. Dave.

 

Dave not sure what kind of race engine builder would recommend a double pumper carb for a street car with a 308 rear and stock convertor. Youll have heck of a time trying get that combination to work. You need a vacum secondary setup. Theres other things I see to but that is one needs fixing. The q-jet probably would have been a better choice here.

Harry

 

Go back up a few sizes on your primary jet

Measure vacuum at idle and cruise rpm

report your findings

Wondering if your idle circuit needs to be leaned out some (has nothing to do wiht the jets/pv may be opening too early

Id keep the 650 also had a little more radical combo than yours yrs ago ran good wiht a 750 (i even had 3.08 at the time) put a known good 650dp on and felt like a completely different car. Instead of pulling it lit the tires up instantly