In doing this frame off restoration I am at the point of replacing the brake and fuel lines. I have the new lines and I did buy a clip set to go with in case I wanted to use them.

In this process I did sandblast the old bolts and the old clips just to see what I had. The old clip set is actually in great shape and I did notice some part identification stamping into the original clips that the replacement clips do not have. So I thought I'd like to use the original clips since structurally the old ones are fine.

But, the clips, and the bolts, now that they have been blasted are going to be susceptible to rust. I don't want to paint them as they were not painted originally, (but the clips may have been zinc coated or something), but would like to protect them in some way from rusting. I've thought about something like SP400 but wondered if there is something else you all have found that works for this kind of part?

Thanks for thoughts and advice as always.

 

Hi gb,
I guess to answer your question it would be good to know what you're doing with other parts on your car that were 'natural' or plated originally.
But to reply….buying the material needed, and the process of dipping your bolts in black oxide, and then a sealer, will give them an original appearance and good protection, and is pretty quick and easy.
For the clips anything short of plating will appear somewhat different than original so perhaps just wire brush them to a uniform appearance and spray with semi-flat clear.
Regards,
Alan

Here's an example of a black oxide coated line clip bolt.

 

Are you wanting to have the car judged by some official body? If so, send the bolts and clips off to a plater (they will fit in a small padded mailer) and get them done as needed.

If you aren't having the car judged, why not just paint them with an appropriate color of metallic paint? No one will see them but you.

 

Thanks Alan,

I hadn't really had to approach the plating aspect yet, as most of the parts I was dealing with there I am replacing. But this is something I am going to have to figure out as there are certainly more of these parts to deal with, especially in the clips and brackets area.

I looked at Caswell's black oxide kit, which I'll probably go with for the bolts, but am not sure on doing something like their copy cad&zinc plating kit. I'm not sure how much of the zinc coating and cad parts there are here versus other coatings. I was things most are zinc or cad but I don't know that for sure. If parts like the brake backing plates which I was going to get new but I may rethink some of that if these kits work well.

 

Hi gb,
There are really 3 different finishes needed if you're going to try to duplicate the original finishes in the engine compartment and on the chassis and running gear.
The black oxide is suitable for many fasteners and is relatively inexpensive and easy to do.
Next is zinc and manganese phosphate which while fairly inexpensive is a bit more involved to do since the bath needs to be in a glass or ss container and heated to about 200 degrees.
The zinc and copy cad is much more expensive to set up, and quite complicated to do well.
Casswell is a good source for the supplies and equipment.
It really depends what your goal is and how much time, effort, and $$ you want to put into this part of restoration.
Regards,
Alan

Phosphate


Zinc

 

Thanks again Alan.

I think I will go ahead in these, I did some further searching on your various threads here on this once I knew the processes and there are actually more parts than I was thinking about here, besides chassis. All of the other parts I have like latches, hinges, inner-door working, etc, are either very dirty, corroded, or the finish is marred to some degree, and once one gets something like the frame all shined up it's really hard to put a crappy looking part back on it.

So I see from the pics it appears you have the cad&zinc plating kit I was looking at from Caswell, and I found the zinc&manganese phosphate kit from Palmetto.

So, yet another side-trip in the restoration. Kind of the fun part though, learning something new along the way.

 

After plating you may want to look at using RPM (Rust Prevention Magic) It is a wax like substance that you melt on to the part(s). It protects bare castings, metal, and plating when applied correctly and does not need re-coating as frequently as some other stuff. If done well it leaves a very natural appearance unlike cosmoline.

I have used it on my differential and all bolts and clips that have been either zinc or manganese phosphated. I prefer to apply the RPM on the bolts immediately after they come out of the phosphate solution while they are hot.

Frankly I coat almost anything that might rust with RPM. Pretty sure one of the forum vendors will have RPM in stock.



Bill

 

Thanks Bill, I'll give this a look as this sounds like something very useful here.

 

Sorry, I missed your reply here earlier in the thread. I may have it judged at some point, or the person that has the car after me may want to pursue having it judged, so I'd rather follow the most proper path here in restoring all these parts. If it was just these clips and bolts I'd probably just have shipped them out, but since these are just the first parts with this issue I'm looking at the bigger picture and figuring out a solution that will work for the rest of what I will have to deal with as I continue with the restoration.

Thanks.

 

Understood...

 

[QUOTE=Alan 71;1588484528]Hi gb,
There are really 3 different finishes needed if you're going to try to duplicate the original finishes in the engine compartment and on the chassis and running gear.
The black oxide is suitable for many fasteners and is relatively inexpensive and easy to do.
Next is zinc and manganese phosphate which while fairly inexpensive is a bit more involved to do since the bath needs to be in a glass or ss container and heated to about 200 degrees.
The zinc and copy cad is much more expensive to set up, and quite complicated to do well.
Casswell is a good source for the supplies and equipment.
It really depends what your goal is and how much time, effort, and $$ you want to put into this part of restoration.
Regards,
Alan

Alan,

Thanks again for the great info here, it solved the issue. I did go full-scale into this, got the copy cad/zinc kit, the black oxide and the phosphate/manganese. So far have used the black oxide for bolts and the copy cad for these gas/brake line clips and while it took a couple tries to get that one working properly the end result was perfect.

I have attached a few pics here of my copy cad system (which I will be expanding on the next go round to deal with some larger parts), a couple clip bolts treated with the black oxide, one of the first clips (which is a bit rough due to not polishing is a little after sandblasting) and then a shot of the new gas/brake lines attached to the frame using the refinished parts.

 

Hi gb,
I'm glad you're having some good results.
I happen to have all 3 finishes going on right now and am learning that besides some skill/experience, it's a bit of an art to get the results you want.
I've also learned that having the part extremely well prepared and clean, along with being careful to not polute the baths, is very, very important.
Good Luck as you continue!
Regards,
Alan

I'm also playing around with the appearance of the tubes on the drive shaft and sb half shafts, and especially working on duplicating the heat zone that the originals exhibited.

 

Yes, it took me a few trips through the baths to get them to do what I wanted. It is a learning experience for sure, but I am pretty happy with the results. A new, dedicated area for this is upcoming in the spring when I can add onto the building.

Those shafts look impressive, now, did you actually heat the shafts to get the bluing, or did you use something like the gun bluing chemicals or those from Steel-FX? Also, did you polish those shaft out first?

This stuff is just too much fun... making me wonder if I'll ever get the car put back together in this lifetime though. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...milies/lol.gif

 

Hi gb,
The tubes are an interesting challenge.
Once I get the method a little more perfected I'll discuss what I do. I 'think' Quanta's process involves removing material from the tube with a lathe. I'm using hand tools. I'm amazed how much like chrome the tube can be made to look.
Black oxide is one of the things I'm using to try to get the dark band. It's odd to me because I don't know about these kind of things, but the heated area must actually have been changed molecularly because the oxide reacts very differently close to the u-joint carrier as opposed to 3/4" away.
It really is big fun trying to figure out how to restore things at home with limited tools and equipment.
Regards,
Alan

 

The metal by the weld is absolutely changed internally. One of my other hobbies is blacksmithing and one of the things one learns is how heat affects the metal you are working with. Depending on the thickness of the metal involved and the amount of heat involved, and welding is high heat, the metal internally will change structure again depending on the makeup of the steel involved, higher carbon steel moves differently than mild steel for example. When heated sufficiently the carbon within the steel will liquefy and flow and can change the steel's structure inside and in effect become a crystalline structure which changes it's properties enough that things like hardness and wear characteristics change. This is how one tempers the blade portion of a knife or axe to make the edge last longer. So in effect the area very close to the weld will have been changed to the point that it will be tighter and harder than the metal further away. Hence the oxide will react differently in the weld area because the steel is structurally different.

 

Hi gb,
That's what I suspected but wasn't quite sure what I was seeing.
Can that area be reheated to make the heat zone again?
How high does the temp need to be? Does the tube need to be 'red hot' again?
If so what are the strength implications?
Always more questions than answers!! The story of my life!
Regards,
Alan

 

This is really tricky to answer as "it depends". The biggest key is what kind of steel the tube is made of, and how was it cooled. If quenched, which I doubt, then one cannot really undo that. I am assuming this would have just air-cooled, which means it will try to go back to it's natural state. The surface will cool faster, so it will not go all the way back, the thinner the metal the faster the cool, so again, not back to natural. That is why the tube will discolor and change structure more than the yoke which cools slower.

One can never go all the way backwards with steel, without re-smelting it. One can re-heat, and in fact for most steel like this the temp is yellow hot to make it flow. One would have to look at the critical temperature charts for the type of metal to know exactly what temp that is. The strength implications are that the harder metal becomes, the brittler it becomes, so getting it too hot too much will weaken it for flexing, which in a drive shaft like this would not be a good thing.

And mysteries are good things, life would be really boring if there was nothing new to learn.

BTW, I'm Ed, Greybull is a name of one of my favorite areas, happened to be on my mind when I registered... I never know how to select a name for these forum/blog things.

 

Hi Ed,
Thanks for the very interesting information. I just don't know ANYTHING about what I'm doing.
In appearance the heat zone seems to disappear when I surface the tube.
It comes back to some degree when I 'stain' the steel with the black oxide.
On the second picture… how was that look obtained in your opinion.
I 'don't' think that's a new shaft.
Thanks,
Alan

Heat zone no longer visible.


Striving for this (I think).

 

Hi Guys,
This has been some good and interesting reading, One question, What book would i look for when researching the different coatings or the finish on all the different c-3 parts?
Thanks,John

 

Hi John,
There really is no single source for the finish specs for both paint and plating on the chassis and running gear.
I think probably the NCRS has compiled the most information.
Certainly their Technical Information Manual & Judging Guide for your year car would be a good place to begin.
Also keeping an eye on the topics on the NCRS Discussion Board and searching old posts is a helpful source too.
There is always some conflicting information but the useful info is there to be gleaned too.
There were really just a couple of paint finishes on the chassis, and just 4 plated finishes on the fasteners, but figuring out what was what is a bit of work.
There also were parts and fasteners left natural which need to be dealt with too.
It can be fun or drive you crazy… it depends!
Regards,
Alan