Borgeson steering?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,339
Likes: 546
From: Central Texas
There was a recent thread about a forum member having service issues with Mudflaps.com. He got the wrong hoses in the Borgeson kit. They went round and round with him about the return and replacement parts.
May I suggest getting a price match from Summit Racing or Jegs. They have superior customer service and will stand behind what they sell.
I'm planning on doing this next week when I order the Borgeson kit.
May I suggest getting a price match from Summit Racing or Jegs. They have superior customer service and will stand behind what they sell.
I'm planning on doing this next week when I order the Borgeson kit.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,339
Likes: 546
From: Central Texas
There was a recent thread about a forum member having service issues with Mudflaps.com. He got the wrong hoses in the Borgeson kit. They went round and round with him about the return and replacement parts.
May I suggest getting a price match from Summit Racing or Jegs. They have superior customer service and will stand behind what they sell.
I'm planning on doing this next week when I order the Borgeson kit.
May I suggest getting a price match from Summit Racing or Jegs. They have superior customer service and will stand behind what they sell.
I'm planning on doing this next week when I order the Borgeson kit.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
In case such info might assist the OP's deliberations, the Borgeson box itself is 12.7:1 vs. 16.1:1 for the stock one. Applicable ratios with the tie-rods in the "quick" vs. "slow" positions work out to ~13.9:1 and ~15.9:1, respectively, for the Borgeson compared to 17.6:1 and 20.2:1 for the stock box. ...assuming my maths are correct. So, the Borgeson appears to be slightly quicker even in "slow" than a stock box in "quick". And FWIW, the Borgeson is the way I'd almost certainly go should I ever opt to reinstall a power steering system on my shark (yep, manual steering by choice here). Hope that helps.
Last edited by TheSkunkWorks; Jun 27, 2015 at 12:56 AM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,451
Likes: 974
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN
I have had a gary ramadei custom blueprinted rebuilt oem box for about 5 years now and have to say that the oem box set up correctly with some minor custom work has ZERO play in the steering... I mean ZERO. My oem box had 65,000 miles on it when rebuilt by Gary and I am still using the oem PS control valve and PS cylinder...no leaks yet...For those that do not want to maintain originality the borgeson box is a good option although I suspect much of the benefit most talk about comes from the quicker steering ratio over the oem box's 16:1 ratio than any great leap over a properly setup oem box by gtr1999. My box is laser direct and for a c3 I prefer the oem ratio since as many have noted, a quicker ratio on the street will make a c3 darty in handling behavior. Just another option based on my experience with a properly setup oem box...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
I have had a gary ramadei custom blueprinted rebuilt oem box for about 5 years now and have to say that the oem box set up correctly with some minor custom work has ZERO play in the steering... I mean ZERO. My oem box had 65,000 miles on it when rebuilt by Gary and I am still using the oem PS control valve and PS cylinder...no leaks yet...For those that do not want to maintain originality the borgeson box is a good option although I suspect much of the benefit most talk about comes from the quicker steering ratio over the oem box's 16:1 ratio than any great leap over a properly setup oem box by gtr1999. My box is laser direct and for a c3 I prefer the oem ratio since as many have noted, a quicker ratio on the street will make a c3 darty in handling behavior. Just another option based on my experience with a properly setup oem box...
I fully agree with much of the above, particularly as to the box itself not being a weak link when properly set up. However, IMOE the stock slave-cylinder system isn't necessarily the safest of designs. It may be a rare fault, but after having it violently yank the wheel out of my hands and nearly put me into a pole across opposing traffic I got rid of mine entirely. I'm very lucky there happened to be a gap at that moment, that I was behaving at the time, and to have stabbed the brakes quickly enough (praise God). Had to cut the belt to get it home, whereupon I tossed the lot in the bin. Just sharing, YMMV...
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,628
Likes: 132
From: Duvall, WA
I just installed a Burgeson power steering conversion in my '71 that had manual steering. The improvement is amazing. I remember driving my parents' '77 in 1982, when it probably had about 10,000 miles on it, and its steering was excellent. I think so people are comparing new Borgeson units to worn factory steering boxes and just assuming the GM steering had no on-center feel when new. I like the quick ratio of the Borgeson, but my wife's Boxster S has a 1:16.9 steering ratio, which is actually a little slower than a stock C3. I agree that rebuilding the factory box is definitely a viable option.
I have had a gary ramadei custom blueprinted rebuilt oem box for about 5 years now and have to say that the oem box set up correctly with some minor custom work has ZERO play in the steering... I mean ZERO. My oem box had 65,000 miles on it when rebuilt by Gary and I am still using the oem PS control valve and PS cylinder...no leaks yet...For those that do not want to maintain originality the borgeson box is a good option although I suspect much of the benefit most talk about comes from the quicker steering ratio over the oem box's 16:1 ratio than any great leap over a properly setup oem box by gtr1999. My box is laser direct and for a c3 I prefer the oem ratio since as many have noted, a quicker ratio on the street will make a c3 darty in handling behavior. Just another option based on my experience with a properly setup oem box...
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,974
Likes: 673
I disagree
I have had a gary ramadei custom blueprinted rebuilt oem box for about 5 years now and have to say that the oem box set up correctly with some minor custom work has ZERO play in the steering... I mean ZERO. My oem box had 65,000 miles on it when rebuilt by Gary and I am still using the oem PS control valve and PS cylinder...no leaks yet...For those that do not want to maintain originality the borgeson box is a good option although I suspect much of the benefit most talk about comes from the quicker steering ratio over the oem box's 16:1 ratio than any great leap over a properly setup oem box by gtr1999. My box is laser direct and for a c3 I prefer the oem ratio since as many have noted, a quicker ratio on the street will make a c3 darty in handling behavior. Just another option based on my experience with a properly setup oem box...
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
My stock box was tight (rebuilt by tracdogg2), but the Borgeson was still a major improvement. Better on-center feel. The steering wheel now feels much more connected to the wheels. There was a delay in the stock power assist. A quick left following by a right and the assist fell behind. The Borgeson keeps up.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,451
Likes: 974
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN
the borgeson box in now way shape or form is darty in handling.what it is, a bad freakin *** set up, and my old system was in great working order.everytime theres a borgeson discussion on here you keep saying how nice your rebuilt stock stuff is, and im sure its really good especially for the guys wanting the stock look .but im telling you guys that borgeson box is way better than stock .no comparison.
My comments are based on good comparators: 2010 C6Z06 and 2012 Lexus IS350 F Sport (both bought new)..incredibly direct steering. 1994 Mustang GT steering replaced by me with 94 cobra steering R&P rack...better but still not great.
Would I use a borgeson box if I was going to ditch the oem steering? Yes.
Last edited by jb78L-82; Jun 28, 2015 at 02:42 AM.