Borgeson steering?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
Likes: 24
From: Charlotte NC
Borgeson steering?
Hello, I've already spoke with Gary Ramadei but was wondering if anyone on here has converted to any of the so called upgraded aftermarket boxes and what they thought of them as compared with the stock steering box? I was interested in the Borgeson power steering box and also what conversion parts are needed for a 74 BB. Is the tighter ratio desirable? Thanks..
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Nothing wrong with the stock system other than the design is back from the 40s. I have had the stock setup, Steeroids rack setup and now the Borgeson setup. I have the say the Borgeson is the cleanest setup and works very well. The Steeroids is a vast I provement also but has a lot hanging down under the car. As for performance the steroids and Borgeson are about the same. IMO they both are better than the stock system. If your a stock kind of guy I have installed many new steering boxes and PS control valves and cylinders and they work like they are supposed to.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,182
Likes: 4,178
From: Kannapolis NC
I just converted mine last week to Borgeson and everything comes in the kit except the belt and fluid. (and the third pulley if you don't already have one on your balancer. My car was a/c with non power steering, so I had to add the pump, brackets, box and rag joint. All came with the kit.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
Likes: 24
From: Charlotte NC
Yeah I just noticed that after I fired my question off. That will answer all my curiosities about the install but thanks for answering about the comparisons and that is what I am pondering on mostly. Thanks for the input!
Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 523
Likes: 4
From: Calgary Alberta
I have a borgeson kit waiting to be installed. I thought about rebuilding the stock unit but then I figured why bother for the slight difference in cost I would end up with new more responsive steering. I also considered the rack and pinion steeroids and the rack attack but I figured if the borgeson is good enough for Danny Popp then it should be fine in my car. JMHO Don
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
Likes: 24
From: Charlotte NC
I have a borgeson kit waiting to be installed. I thought about rebuilding the stock unit but then I figured why bother for the slight difference in cost I would end up with new more responsive steering. I also considered the rack and pinion steeroids and the rack attack but I figured if the borgeson is good enough for Danny Popp then it should be fine in my car. JMHO Don
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Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 523
Likes: 4
From: Calgary Alberta
Just for your information, check out the forty eight hour C3 build being done by RideTech. The thread and their build sheet shows that they selected a Borgeson unit to install as well.
However, they do mention a steering bracket in the build which Ridetech added. I suspect the bracket is needed for the difference in their upgraded front suspension setup versus a stock setup.
In other threads in this forum there has not been any mention of a bracket required with the Borgeson install. Ridetech advises they will supply some info. about the bracket in the 48 C3 corvette build thread but I haven't seen anything about it yet.
If the RideTech bracket proves to be beneficial to the Borgeson install in a stock c3 then I may consider getting one when they become available.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 56
Likes: 5
The bracket we made during the build was simply a unit that runs from the top of the steering box to the outside of the frame rail. This is for triangulation stiffening only.
It is not required to install the Borgeson box in any car.
We knew the box flexing to be an issue when driven as hard as we drive our stuff, so we took the opportunity to build a brace while we were there. . .I mean we had a ton of time!
It is not required to install the Borgeson box in any car.
We knew the box flexing to be an issue when driven as hard as we drive our stuff, so we took the opportunity to build a brace while we were there. . .I mean we had a ton of time!
Racer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 483
Likes: 3
From: Pequannock NJ
I upgraded to the Borgeson on my '80 the other week and finally was able to take the car for a drive the other day (we've had a lot of snow in NJ). The feel is great, very solid, I guess you can say it has a modern feel, I like it.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 523
Likes: 4
From: Calgary Alberta
The bracket we made during the build was simply a unit that runs from the top of the steering box to the outside of the frame rail. This is for triangulation stiffening only.
It is not required to install the Borgeson box in any car.
We knew the box flexing to be an issue when driven as hard as we drive our stuff, so we took the opportunity to build a brace while we were there. . .I mean we had a ton of time!
It is not required to install the Borgeson box in any car.
We knew the box flexing to be an issue when driven as hard as we drive our stuff, so we took the opportunity to build a brace while we were there. . .I mean we had a ton of time!
Do you know if Ridetech will be making that bracket an available item to be purchased?
Regards,
Don
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,182
Likes: 4,178
From: Kannapolis NC
It will take me a while to get used to the quicker steering. It's only 1 and 1/4 turns from center to each lock. You can't let your hand drift 10 degrees or you'll cross a couple lanes of traffic. I've driven it 3 times and I'm getting used to it. It's a dream on turns, you can make a 90 degree turn with less than a half turn of the wheel (my tie rod ends are in the tighter ratio steering and the box is much quicker). Very clean install, less stuff to leak or fail. I don't care much for the rag joint that comes in the kit, but you have to use it to attach to the new box (two flats with allen screws). Main thing I don't like is the fact that the new box has o'ring connectors and the hoses have flared fittings, so they send these little brass ferules to push down in the hole and you tighten the hoses down on them. It's hard to get them to stop seeping, I'm still working on the return line connector for that.
The ORIGINAL and bestest
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 10,009
Likes: 240
From: Toronto Ontario
Toronto Events Coordinator
The fact that both Danny Popp and Brian Hobaugh chose to use the Borgeson box on their extremely competitive and winning vettes was enough for me to buy it. I have never been convinced that the rack and pinion conversions available were any good. I have not yet gotten around to installing it, but I am looking forward to testing it out!
During Ride Tech's live 48Corvette build last week, the owner of Ride Tech spoke about the fact that the Borgeson was a better choice over a rack and pinion for these cars, which further validated to me my choice. They also made the already mentioned brace for the Borgeson that I will replicate if they do not have one available by the time I get around to installing mine.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,883
Likes: 11
From: North Easton Mass
I had rebuilt my stock steering system with the exception of the steering box and the car was always a handful to drive. Vague steering and wandering all over the place. I got partway through a DIY Jeep box install and decided to go with a Borgeson kit instead. The flare fittings do need to be tight and can be hard to get a wrench on, but the seepage can be cured. You can always make custom lines with O-ring fittings if you prefer that.
My Vette handles great now. I can feel every small movement of the wheel and the car drives like a modern vehicle.
Rick B.
My Vette handles great now. I can feel every small movement of the wheel and the car drives like a modern vehicle.
Rick B.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 100
Likes: 8
Yes, it will be made available. I do not yet know the price or availability...it will take a few weeks to make its way through our engineering/production/sales departments, but we will certainly make this forum aware of all that info first. We appreciate the interest!
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
Likes: 24
From: Charlotte NC
It will take me a while to get used to the quicker steering. It's only 1 and 1/4 turns from center to each lock. You can't let your hand drift 10 degrees or you'll cross a couple lanes of traffic. I've driven it 3 times and I'm getting used to it. It's a dream on turns, you can make a 90 degree turn with less than a half turn of the wheel (my tie rod ends are in the tighter ratio steering and the box is much quicker). Very clean install, less stuff to leak or fail. I don't care much for the rag joint that comes in the kit, but you have to use it to attach to the new box (two flats with allen screws). Main thing I don't like is the fact that the new box has o'ring connectors and the hoses have flared fittings, so they send these little brass ferules to push down in the hole and you tighten the hoses down on them. It's hard to get them to stop seeping, I'm still working on the return line connector for that.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,182
Likes: 4,178
From: Kannapolis NC
I just spoke with Corvette Connections about having them do the job for me. They are coming up with an estimate but are trying to determine which box to go with. They want to know about the draglink whether it is integral or assist. I'm not sure how I could identify that on my car. Any ideas? thanks
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 956
Likes: 86
From: McDonough Georgia
Hello, I've already spoke with Gary Ramadei but was wondering if anyone on here has converted to any of the so called upgraded aftermarket boxes and what they thought of them as compared with the stock steering box? I was interested in the Borgeson power steering box and also what conversion parts are needed for a 74 BB. Is the tighter ratio desirable? Thanks..
The B box is tighter steering. three turns stop to stop. I believe you go from 16:1 ratio to 12.5:1. I may have forgotten off the top of my head.
Mud Flaps is great place to buy one.
I have this box on two C3 corvettes and will never run stock again on any c3 vette.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
Likes: 24
From: Charlotte NC
I am a big fan of the Borgeson conversion. There is a lengthy thread on here with detailed instructions how to do it yourself. It is not that complicated.
The B box is tighter steering. three turns stop to stop. I believe you go from 16:1 ratio to 12.5:1. I may have forgotten off the top of my head.
Mud Flaps is great place to buy one.
I have this box on two C3 corvettes and will never run stock again on any c3 vette.
The B box is tighter steering. three turns stop to stop. I believe you go from 16:1 ratio to 12.5:1. I may have forgotten off the top of my head.
Mud Flaps is great place to buy one.
I have this box on two C3 corvettes and will never run stock again on any c3 vette.
OK thanks I'll check out Mud Flaps...