Help! Is This Rag Joint Correct???
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 153
Likes: 4
Help! Is This Rag Joint Correct???
Hi guys, I took my vette to a shop in town and had my rag joint replaced because from what it seems, after doing the borg box install the steering shaft might've been left too far back thus tearing the rag joint as seen in the first two pics. After the rag joint was replaced, i noticed that the two studs that make contact with the steering shaft part dont quite reach in order to make proper engagement, leaving all the stress of turns up to the rubber part alone.
The 3-5 pic show the new rag joint installed. Does this look correct? It seems a bit sketchy to me but I figured I'd ask here before bothering back at the shop that did the work.
The 3-5 pic show the new rag joint installed. Does this look correct? It seems a bit sketchy to me but I figured I'd ask here before bothering back at the shop that did the work.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,453
Likes: 88
From: Easton Pennsylvania
I am seeing a most unsafe condition.
Your situation is more than the wrong rag joint. What I men is the installation is the big problem here. Looks like all they did is replace the rubber isolator and thats it. The column has to be extended out about a 1/2 inch, and there is hardware missing from the attachment points, Like the metal bridge that crosses from one side to another and acts like a washer between the rubber and the nut. The new rubber isolator is already showing signs of stress because of being tightened down using the incorrect hardware. IMHO.
I am sure some others will chime in who are better at explaining things on a keyboard than I.
BTW. It is always best to install an OEM new rag joint. I know they are discontinued but they are out there although expensive. The repos are ok if you know what you are looking for. The rebuild kits are for the most part junk. Again, IMHO
Your situation is more than the wrong rag joint. What I men is the installation is the big problem here. Looks like all they did is replace the rubber isolator and thats it. The column has to be extended out about a 1/2 inch, and there is hardware missing from the attachment points, Like the metal bridge that crosses from one side to another and acts like a washer between the rubber and the nut. The new rubber isolator is already showing signs of stress because of being tightened down using the incorrect hardware. IMHO.
I am sure some others will chime in who are better at explaining things on a keyboard than I.
BTW. It is always best to install an OEM new rag joint. I know they are discontinued but they are out there although expensive. The repos are ok if you know what you are looking for. The rebuild kits are for the most part junk. Again, IMHO
Last edited by persuader; Mar 13, 2015 at 11:10 AM.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 586
Likes: 10
From: Alexandria VA
I am seeing a most unsafe condition.
Your situation is more than the wrong rag joint. What I men is the installation is the big problem here. Looks like all they did is replace the rubber isolator and thats it. The column has to be extended out about a 1/2 inch, and there is hardware missing from the attachment points, Like the metal bridge that crosses from one side to another and acts like a washer between the rubber and the nut. The new rubber isolator is already showing signs of stress because of being tightened down using the incorrect hardware. IMHO.
I am sure some others will chime in who are better at explaining things on a keyboard than I.
BTW. It is always best to install an OEM new rag joint. I know they are discontinued but they are out there although expensive. The repos are ok if you know what you are looking for. The rebuild kits are for the most part junk. Again, IMHO
Your situation is more than the wrong rag joint. What I men is the installation is the big problem here. Looks like all they did is replace the rubber isolator and thats it. The column has to be extended out about a 1/2 inch, and there is hardware missing from the attachment points, Like the metal bridge that crosses from one side to another and acts like a washer between the rubber and the nut. The new rubber isolator is already showing signs of stress because of being tightened down using the incorrect hardware. IMHO.
I am sure some others will chime in who are better at explaining things on a keyboard than I.
BTW. It is always best to install an OEM new rag joint. I know they are discontinued but they are out there although expensive. The repos are ok if you know what you are looking for. The rebuild kits are for the most part junk. Again, IMHO
Also, Borgeson usually provides a new rag joint with their conversion kit. I just sent two of them back...long story...but they appear to be solid units.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,321
Likes: 4,428
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi J,
This picture illustrates the normal position of the 2 parts of the joint.
Compare it to your picture.
As P indicated the folks who installed your rag joint weren't looking out for you.
Regards,
Alan
Look at your #3&4 pics.
This picture illustrates the normal position of the 2 parts of the joint.
Compare it to your picture.
As P indicated the folks who installed your rag joint weren't looking out for you.
Regards,
Alan
Look at your #3&4 pics.
Last edited by Alan 71; Mar 14, 2015 at 09:47 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,215
Likes: 4,195
From: Kannapolis NC
The Borgeson box takes a different rag joint connector than OEM box. The steering column side is the same. It looks to me like you compressed your steering column about an inch too much. It should be able to be extended toward the box to make the joint fit tighter.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Those 'reaction' pins need to be fully engaged in the slots on the mating piece. Otherwise, if the rubber fails, the steering wheel could just spin around with no motion transferred to the steering box.
The bottom end of your steering column might have collapsed a bit, due to installation forces. The design of the steering column is such that it will collapse under frontal collision, rather than transferring forces to YOU.
The bottom end of your steering column might have collapsed a bit, due to installation forces. The design of the steering column is such that it will collapse under frontal collision, rather than transferring forces to YOU.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 153
Likes: 4
It seems to be the case that the column is collapsing on its own. i took it back, we pulled the shaft back down and a day later it went back up. The car is missing that washer that goes across the bolts though if that makes any difference?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 971
Likes: 45
From: Middlesex NJ
I see two things.
1. You dont have the lower clamp on the bottom of the steering shaft? See my picture below. I have a borg in mine and I still have the lower clamp on mine between the lower bearing and the rag joint so the shaft cannot creep backup (even if it could move). My column shaft was 4 1/4" from the bottom of the steering column bearing to the tip of the shaft prior to installing the borg... then compressed it was 1 7/8" to get the borg in. Yours seems too far compressed into the column.
2. Maybe its the picture... but your headers are freaking close to the rag joint. Is it possible it was melted by the heat??
1. You dont have the lower clamp on the bottom of the steering shaft? See my picture below. I have a borg in mine and I still have the lower clamp on mine between the lower bearing and the rag joint so the shaft cannot creep backup (even if it could move). My column shaft was 4 1/4" from the bottom of the steering column bearing to the tip of the shaft prior to installing the borg... then compressed it was 1 7/8" to get the borg in. Yours seems too far compressed into the column.
2. Maybe its the picture... but your headers are freaking close to the rag joint. Is it possible it was melted by the heat??
Last edited by mysixtynine; Mar 17, 2015 at 12:27 PM.
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 153
Likes: 4
I see two things.
1. You dont have the lower clamp on the bottom of the steering shaft? See my picture below. I have a borg in mine and I still have the lower clamp on mine between the lower bearing and the rag joint so the shaft cannot creep backup (even if it could move). My column shaft was 4 1/4" from the bottom of the steering column bearing to the tip of the shaft prior to installing the borg... then compressed it was 1 7/8" to get the borg in. Yours seems too far compressed into the column.
2. Maybe its the picture... but your headers are freaking close to the rag joint. Is it possible it was melted by the heat??
1. You dont have the lower clamp on the bottom of the steering shaft? See my picture below. I have a borg in mine and I still have the lower clamp on mine between the lower bearing and the rag joint so the shaft cannot creep backup (even if it could move). My column shaft was 4 1/4" from the bottom of the steering column bearing to the tip of the shaft prior to installing the borg... then compressed it was 1 7/8" to get the borg in. Yours seems too far compressed into the column.
2. Maybe its the picture... but your headers are freaking close to the rag joint. Is it possible it was melted by the heat??
Also would this possibly be the lower bearing?
Lastly your eyes do not deceive you, my headers come within a half inch of the rag joint... but the shaft is collapsing which seems to be the main issue
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 971
Likes: 45
From: Middlesex NJ
This thread is giving me fits... I cant get to the bottom of the page to reply to your question so i am putting in a new post.
I am not sure about the 78 column but my 69 has the clamp.
Here is another pic of my column before I rebuilt it.
I am not sure about the 78 column but my 69 has the clamp.
Here is another pic of my column before I rebuilt it.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,215
Likes: 4,195
From: Kannapolis NC
The purpose of the collapsing shaft is to help stop the steering wheel from impaling you in an accident. If that collar is bolted down, that would override the collapse. For what it's worth, my 72 doesn't have and has never had that clamp, and the column doesn't collapse when driving as yours is.
