Fire! A Warning...
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 545
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From: Waukesha WI
Fire! A Warning...
This may be a no brainer to others but though I would post it to newbies as info. Had the shop doing some work on my car today...oil pressure line broke, oil hit headers, FIRE! No damage (they say) but potential for disaster. They are claiming that the line was plastic and should have been copper. Dont know who made that mod. I never thought about, or knew this could happen. I was always mindfull of the fuel line and leaks, etc, oil didnt cross my mind.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,322
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From: Living in the Hartland
Re: Fire! A Warning... (DollaGreen)
Mine is plastic as well. Not sure what 'stock' was made of or if mine is the stock one. Sounds like they are trying to cover up carelessness on their part with a charge of incorrect part on your part. :bs
[Modified by Fevre, 2:37 PM 8/14/2002]
[Modified by Fevre, 2:37 PM 8/14/2002]
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Living in the Hartland
Re: Fire! A Warning... (427V8)
Plastic IS stock....
not that I'm saying copper wouldn't be better!
not that I'm saying copper wouldn't be better!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Waukesha WI
Re: Fire! A Warning... (Fevre)
They dont claim to be specifically Vette experts, but they have done good work for myself and my family before. I know they dont try to pass off stuff on others. I have seen the line before, but never paid any attention. I might have hit it doing something before for all I know. Just doesnt seem to make sense to have it be plastic though. Not that I doubt stock was plastic. I never even realized the gage was mechanical! Like I said, lesson for the newbies. :crazy:
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,322
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From: Living in the Hartland
Re: Fire! A Warning... (DollaGreen)
Did they state how it broke? Seems it would leak first not just break. It is a softer plastic so it must have been wrenched on or cut by something. Not saying they did break it but if a mech did something careless and broke it they could be trying to save their job. Just look into it is all I am saying. What work where they doing?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,062
Likes: 1,360
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Fire! A Warning... (DollaGreen)
As said, plastic is stock.
With rubber motor mounts the engine has considerable movement.
This is the main reason for a plastic line.
If copper is installed, and the engine movement is not addressed, then the copper line will break in a very short period of time.
Copper is not flexible !!
Example: In a Cessna 180 aircraft, they use copper line for the oil pressure.
The engine is "fixed" to the frame and they use loops in the copper before passing thru the firewall to the instrument cluster, with a bracket mounted to the firewall.
If they put copper on, do a very close inspection before accepting the repair.
With rubber motor mounts the engine has considerable movement.
This is the main reason for a plastic line.
If copper is installed, and the engine movement is not addressed, then the copper line will break in a very short period of time.
Copper is not flexible !!
Example: In a Cessna 180 aircraft, they use copper line for the oil pressure.
The engine is "fixed" to the frame and they use loops in the copper before passing thru the firewall to the instrument cluster, with a bracket mounted to the firewall.
If they put copper on, do a very close inspection before accepting the repair.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Waukesha WI
Re: Fire! A Warning... (Barry's70LT1)
Fevre: I IM'ed you, but they were fixing a leak on the intake that I installed :smash: so I can not for sure blame them for causing any damage. AND, I just really want things right and I more or less trust the mechanic.
Barry, I called them and asked about your concern. They are claiming that they are using a flexible copper, made by VDO? specifically for this purpose. They think the line may have gotten too hot, or hit the header (left hand side), causing the leak. They are insisting that copper is the way to go, and that they wanted that specifcally because of this reason. They agreed that plastic was stock. They are assuring me this is a better way to go. I dont have a reason to doubt them unless someone has experience on this. Thanks for throwing in on this, very much appreciated.
[Modified by DollaGreen, 4:07 PM 8/14/2002]
Barry, I called them and asked about your concern. They are claiming that they are using a flexible copper, made by VDO? specifically for this purpose. They think the line may have gotten too hot, or hit the header (left hand side), causing the leak. They are insisting that copper is the way to go, and that they wanted that specifcally because of this reason. They agreed that plastic was stock. They are assuring me this is a better way to go. I dont have a reason to doubt them unless someone has experience on this. Thanks for throwing in on this, very much appreciated.
[Modified by DollaGreen, 4:07 PM 8/14/2002]
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,062
Likes: 1,360
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Fire! A Warning... (DollaGreen)
I called them and asked about your concern. They are claiming that they are using a flexible copper, made by VDO? specifically for this purpose.
Barry
Race Director
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From: Plano TX
Re: Fire! A Warning... (DollaGreen)
My '71 has had copper as long as I've had it, which is about 5 years now. Also have rubber engine mounts. No leaks yet. It is shaped in a coil before going through the firewall.
Racer
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 485
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From: MESA, AZ, USA
Re: Fire! A Warning... (DollaGreen)
Have to throw in some thoughts. My '73 had a "plastic" line. Actually a hard, black, "plastic" line with fittings at both ends that were made for the plastic. My '69 BB has what I'm assuming to be the original (steel I think, not copper) and there's a couple of large loops built into the routing to allow for all the movement/vibration, and both were routed and guarded against getting too close to the exhaust.
Andy
Andy
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Pro
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From: Waukesha WI
Re: Fire! A Warning... (WATTAC)
I dont remember if mine was coiled or not. Since it was one of the working items on my car, i have not paid too much attention to it. :D I will check and update how they setup the new one. I dont know how it might have gotten so near to the header, but I have done lots to the car as of late. Do you guys think I should add "copper oil pressure line" to the list of mods in my signature. :D
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,401
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From: Chester Virginia
Re: Fire! A Warning... (DollaGreen)
My 73 had a plastic line as well. When I was working on the intake I pushed on the + year old line and it broke. The old line had become less flexible over time and did not take the extra flex. Got a replacement plastic line kit at Advance Auto Parts complete with brass fittings.
If you install a new line I would suggest you replace the old line all the way to the gage. Extra work, but it could save a headache later. Hot oil in the gage cluster would not be fun.
Roger
If you install a new line I would suggest you replace the old line all the way to the gage. Extra work, but it could save a headache later. Hot oil in the gage cluster would not be fun.
Roger
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Midland TX
Re: Fire! A Warning... (RMS73)
I have a 72 LS5. The "correct" setup is a copper line from the engine to just below the valve cover. A plastic line attaches to the copper line and goes through the firewall to the oil pressure gauge.
I was detailing my engine compartment and accidently broke the plastic line. :cry It was pretty brittle as you can imagine after 30 years of heat and weather.
A new oil line kit is about $30.
I was detailing my engine compartment and accidently broke the plastic line. :cry It was pretty brittle as you can imagine after 30 years of heat and weather.
A new oil line kit is about $30.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,711
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From: San Antonio TX
Re: Fire! A Warning... (72vette_454)
Nylon is not stock. Neither is copper. The real factory line is a copper plated steel line. For those who have the original factory line, hit it with a magnet and see if it sticks. I think over the years, most of our cars have been converted over to nylon due to leaks and breaks. Though, if given the choice, I would take nylon over copper since copper work-hardens and fractures very easily. And as long as you don't kink the nylon or mis-align the barrel seal, it should last about forever.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: NorCal
Re: Fire! A Warning... (DollaGreen)
On the early sharks, it's factory black plastic that usually gets replaced with the generic white plastic. It does get old and brittle. Copper will work if you do the loop thing.
Hans
Hans
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Carlisle PA
Re: Fire! A Warning... (72vette_454)
A new oil line kit is about $30.
Also, NHRA requires that a mechanical oil pressure line be copper or better. Use a nylon line a good tech guy will say tell you :seeya
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,062
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From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Fire! A Warning... (Wrencher)
On the early sharks, it's factory black plastic. Hans
I still have the original black plastic line. (Waiting to break).
Barry
Le Mans Master
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From: Semper ubi, sub ubi
Cruise-In VI Veteran
Cruise-In VII Veteran
Re: Fire! A Warning... (DollaGreen)
My 69 has a white nylon (nylon is plastic) line on it, I'm not sure it is original, but it was hard, nasty and kinked enough to be original. I am going to replace it with a new line I got at the parts store (I think it is sold by Sun) for about $10.00
Team Owner
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From: Zionsville, PA NRA Life Member
St. Jude '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10
Re: Fire! A Warning... (RMS73)
Hot oil in the gage cluster would not be fun.
He ended up replacing all the center gauges in his '69 Vert
:seeya