[QUOTE=BlackC3vette;1591117719]

When i first noticed the C-clip problem...

on very long turns, like an onramp or a long bend my C3 felt like a boat, the rear felt as if it was not stable,,, a wash type of feeling...

Now keep in mind, this was on 15" stock rims with, at the time, were some of the best tires i could buy... actually HR rated!!!...

put in the c-clips... problem went away...

 

Wasnt trying to reignite old debates, just wasn't sure if I was missing something that limited the amount of force transmitted to the rings. It seems almost as foolish to me to transmit the opposite force to the carrier center pin when an upper arm would have taken care of the whole issue. Why put lateral loads on a differential? Mine won't be raced (for as long as I have it) and I am leaving the stock wheels on, so probably not of much concern to me, but just trying to understand the engineering behind this differential as I have it apart.

 

Wow. Another debate. Well, all parties involved are going to be happy and upset from what I write.
So I will start off by saying; I can make any stub axle without a snap ring pull out of the diff with just a test drive in a parking lot. But I know how to do it. Under normal driving conditions it shouldn't happen. I watched all the videos and read everything posted. All the mathematical equations. Everyone is right and everyone is wrong. There are too many factors being left out. Camber, tire width, wheel width, offset, compound, suspension stiffness, and the combined combinations.
Without having to constantly repeat myself I'll use + and -.
+ = increases chance of stub axle pulling out of diff.
- = reduces chance of stub axle pulling out

skinny tire and wheel, soft suspension, neg camber:
less neg camber +
stiffer suspension +
lower ride height -
wider wheel, neg camber, same offset +
wider wheel, 0 camber -
wider wheel, pos offset -
wide wheel and tire, neg camber, stiff suspension +
soft suspension -
0 camber -
soft compound, neg camber +
0 camber -
soft compound, neg camber, stiff suspension +
soft suspension -
lower ride height +
lower strut rod mount, neg camber +

I can go on and on and on.
I have a feeling this will be a long drawn out debate so everyone lets give keep it civil and not upset the moderators. There is an incredible amount of information that can be learned on this thread. A lot more than just the will it/won't it debate.

Gweesh, When the suspension was designed, this set-up was the best out there. Look at any of the 60's formula racers and you will see they run the same geometry. It is impossible to get the best overall geometry with a solid halfshaft. Especially when you are up against bean counters and a moderately, or questionable, model of car

Mike.

 

My $0.02 worth.....


I had the rear end apart on my wife's former '79, about 20 years ago, because it was making "noise". Turned out the inner ends of the side yokes had worn, began "slapping" the shaft that the spider gears rode on, and this improper force "egg shaped" the holes in the carrier that the shaft fit through.

Long story short, since I had access to a machine shop where I worked, we built up the work yokes by welding, then re-machined the ends to the proper length. There were "c-clips" in place when I took it apart, and new ones went in during re-assembly.


To add a little perspective to this discussion, consider this.....Given the 3-4 year lead times involved in bringing a new design to production, the C-2, C-3 IRS set-up had it's origins in 1958-59, with it's production slated for a fall introduction in 1962. Tires at the time, IIRC, were 7.35-15s.....at a whopping 3-3.5" tread width. Hardly wide enough to generate much side loading to the diff.......

 

Even on street tires, the yokes try to pull out of the differential during a turn. When my yokes were worn, allowing for extra movement at the c-clips, it was very obvious to me that something was horribly wrong with the suspension. I would never drive a corvette without the c-clips installed. Street tires DO have enough traction to do this even in slow speed corners, does not have to be racing slicks.

I have no idea how you get away with this. Not having the yokes positively located in the rear end by the clips was pretty obvious a bad thing to me (even when I was in my 20's).

 

Not pointing a finger at anyone in particular, but not all backsides are calibrated sensitively enough to discern if/when something's amiss with the rear suspension. JMO

 

I'm not an expert on these cars.... However, I am a master tech.
It took about 2 hard throttle turns for me to feel the camber shifting in the rear of my vette. It has stock wheels. One yoke was worn right down to clip and other had around .100 play. That being said, I think if the rest of the suspension wasnt worn out just as bad, I'm not sure it would have allowed the slop it did. My uneducated opinion is that if I had stock wheels and fresh bushings/cushions it may have been a challenge to get enough leverage on the wheel to pull on yoke. If you are happy to not have the clip, then I'm fine with you leaving it out. In the professional repair environment, those clips better go back in,even if its just a CYA. So, I'm going to put them in. If I never need them, then they can just happily ride on the stub shaft and I'll never know any difference. If I ever do need them, they'll be there. If I were moving to a bigger wheel, I'd probably ditch this rear end setup, as IMO it was never engineered to handle them and I don't like the idea of all that force riding on a tiny spring clip.

There are no hard fast rules when you are customizing a car for yourself (that's why its fun!), so everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

I would like to make one more comment about the statement it's kind of like saying my left motor mount is broken but I don't need to replace it because the motor sits in there just fine...I just drive easy and don't get into it.... but we all know if you really get on it that left side will lift up twist...and why would you leave a motor mount broken and just drive around slowly??? Yes it will work... But really? Isn't that kind of Buba???

 

I'm glad you mentioned that. That method has piqued my curiosity for years. Several other mechanical things are built-up/repaired by welding material back on it, but I have never (personally) seen it done on the differential yokes. I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but if anybody is learned enough to explain the reasons why any of the volume yoke rebuilders shy away from this technique I'd greatly appreciate it (to satisfy my engineering curiosity). Thanks.

Back to the original topic: I recall a buddy of mine in the mid 1970s removing the clips from his '65 differential. Seemed odd/dangerous to me at the time (even despite my youthful stupidity), but somehow he managed to get away with it anyway.

 

I'll hazard a guess, and say that it isn't generally done that way, because the repair isn't pretty. We weren't able to overlap the splines with the welded on material, then re-cut the splines. Therefore, we added the material in about a 1" diameter, than machined it flat. It was completely functional, just not attractive....