door alignment wedge fiasco
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 254
From: Catlett VA
door alignment wedge fiasco
I thought I would do a quick installation of the door alignment wedges on my 68 convert. Four little bolts into four threaded holes on each side should take five minutes, right? Wrong! On the passenger side, closing the door with normal force still left it in the half-latched position, so I slammed it harder. The door closed and the seam between door and door frame was perfectly aligned. One problem. Now the door would not open- at all. Peering into the space where the wedges were with my flashlight showed the door wedge had gone completely past the door frame wedge and now locked the door in place. No amount of prying or pushing budged the tightly closed door. I finally got the inside trim on my freshly finished door frame off so I could work and spent the next hour and a half drilling and sawing out the hard plastic wedge so I could get the door open. I think I will just leave the wedges off the car. Photos are before and after on passenger side and the wedge on the driver side. (no, I did not chance repeating on the driver side.)
Racer
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 463
Likes: 129
RA
Ouch, sorry to see your door alignment wedge problem. Not that that it will help you now, but hopefully someone else may benefit, you had the pieces reversed. The plastic piece goes on door surround and the metal wedge on the door.
The 68 wedge design was bad because you can easily do what you did. If you want to use the wedges you might want to consider using the 69 design. The plastic piece was the same but the wedge was larger to insure it didn't over run the block.
John
Ouch, sorry to see your door alignment wedge problem. Not that that it will help you now, but hopefully someone else may benefit, you had the pieces reversed. The plastic piece goes on door surround and the metal wedge on the door.
The 68 wedge design was bad because you can easily do what you did. If you want to use the wedges you might want to consider using the 69 design. The plastic piece was the same but the wedge was larger to insure it didn't over run the block.
John
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 254
From: Catlett VA
r wedges
RA
Ouch, sorry to see your door alignment wedge problem. Not that that it will help you now, but hopefully someone else may benefit, you had the pieces reversed. The plastic piece goes on door surround and the metal wedge on the door.
The 68 wedge design was bad because you can easily do what you did. If you want to use the wedges you might want to consider using the 69 design. The plastic piece was the same but the wedge was larger to insure it didn't over run the block.
John
Ouch, sorry to see your door alignment wedge problem. Not that that it will help you now, but hopefully someone else may benefit, you had the pieces reversed. The plastic piece goes on door surround and the metal wedge on the door.
The 68 wedge design was bad because you can easily do what you did. If you want to use the wedges you might want to consider using the 69 design. The plastic piece was the same but the wedge was larger to insure it didn't over run the block.
John
Thanks. I was not sure which piece went where. The best photo I had looked like the way I installed them- but I was still guessing. For the 69 design, are the holes used those two rivet holes on the 68 or are new holes drilled? I'd like to use something to decrease the door rattle when the car is driven. RA
Racer
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 463
Likes: 129
RA
I can't do a direct comparison between my 68 and 69 as the 68 is in a storage facility right now.
The position of the plastic wedges on the door appear to be a little different between the years. They give some position dimensions in the 68 AIM but only say drill on dimples in the 69.
I took some pictures of my 69 and put down some rough dimensions. The up and down dimension position on the plastic wedges varied from 1.3 on the passenger to 1.6 on the drivers side. The metal wedges on the door were both approximately 2.375 up from the center of the top door lock bolt.
Sorry from the crappy cell phone pictures but it's all I have right now.
John
I can't do a direct comparison between my 68 and 69 as the 68 is in a storage facility right now.
The position of the plastic wedges on the door appear to be a little different between the years. They give some position dimensions in the 68 AIM but only say drill on dimples in the 69.
I took some pictures of my 69 and put down some rough dimensions. The up and down dimension position on the plastic wedges varied from 1.3 on the passenger to 1.6 on the drivers side. The metal wedges on the door were both approximately 2.375 up from the center of the top door lock bolt.
Sorry from the crappy cell phone pictures but it's all I have right now.
John
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 254
From: Catlett VA
wedges
Thanks, John. Don't apologize for the photos. I use the cell phone camera that is always in my pocket, instead of the Nikon SLR that I have to walk to get. I ordered the 1969 wedges from Ecklers and they show just the long tapered hard plastic piece. If that firms up the door, it should work for me and it looks like it won't get stuck and I won't have to repaint the door jamb again. RA
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,283
Likes: 4,373
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi ra,
I realize you don't want to hear this but you REALLY need to have the Assembly Manual in front of you when you're working on your car. (It sounds like you don't have one.)
People make fun of it and say it's inaccurate and difficult to understand but it will SAVE you from things like this.
Another suggestion, I encourage you to get the parts catalogues from ZIP Corvette Products, Corvette Central, and Paragon Corvette Reproductions.
These catalogues OFTEN show a drawing (from the AIM) of the part installed so you'll have some idea if it's the part you think it is and if it installs the way you think it does.
I've been playing with the same car for 25 years and I still use those 3 catalogues and the AIM constantly.
I'm sorry for your troubles!
Regards,
Alan
I realize you don't want to hear this but you REALLY need to have the Assembly Manual in front of you when you're working on your car. (It sounds like you don't have one.)
People make fun of it and say it's inaccurate and difficult to understand but it will SAVE you from things like this.
Another suggestion, I encourage you to get the parts catalogues from ZIP Corvette Products, Corvette Central, and Paragon Corvette Reproductions.
These catalogues OFTEN show a drawing (from the AIM) of the part installed so you'll have some idea if it's the part you think it is and if it installs the way you think it does.
I've been playing with the same car for 25 years and I still use those 3 catalogues and the AIM constantly.
I'm sorry for your troubles!
Regards,
Alan
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 254
From: Catlett VA
wedges
Hi ra,
I realize you don't want to hear this but you REALLY need to have the Assembly Manual in front of you when you're working on your car. (It sounds like you don't have one.)
People make fun of it and say it's inaccurate and difficult to understand but it will SAVE you from things like this.
Another suggestion, I encourage you to get the parts catalogues from ZIP Corvette Products, Corvette Central, and Paragon Corvette Reproductions.
These catalogues OFTEN show a drawing (from the AIM) of the part installed so you'll have some idea if it's the part you think it is and if it installs the way you think it does.
I've been playing with the same car for 25 years and I still use those 3 catalogues and the AIM constantly.
I'm sorry for your troubles!
Regards,
Alan
I realize you don't want to hear this but you REALLY need to have the Assembly Manual in front of you when you're working on your car. (It sounds like you don't have one.)
People make fun of it and say it's inaccurate and difficult to understand but it will SAVE you from things like this.
Another suggestion, I encourage you to get the parts catalogues from ZIP Corvette Products, Corvette Central, and Paragon Corvette Reproductions.
These catalogues OFTEN show a drawing (from the AIM) of the part installed so you'll have some idea if it's the part you think it is and if it installs the way you think it does.
I've been playing with the same car for 25 years and I still use those 3 catalogues and the AIM constantly.
I'm sorry for your troubles!
Regards,
Alan
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,283
Likes: 4,373
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi ra,
Well at least you have the AIM.
I don't have a copy of the 68 AIM so I can only give you a hint about where to look.
In my 71 AIM the info is in UPC 1 asm, Sheets F 1,F 2, etc.
These pages have to do with the installation of the soft top, the soft top hardware on the body, the soft top weatherstripping, and the soft top 'lid'.
The information on the wedge on the body (lock pillar) (which is very different by 71, or I'd gladly send you the page) is found on Sheet F4, Lid Striker, etc.
Look in that vicinity in your 68 AIM. There's also some information in the door section on Sheet K7 about the wedge on the door
It COULD be that the info isn't there, or isn't accurate since it appears getting the convertible doors to not shake was a problem that took some on going 'fixes'.
I guess this is the sort of thing that causes people with 68 cars to say how frustrating working on them can be…. continuing changes and or inaccurate information!
Believe me, if I had something to help you I'd send it, but I don't.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan
Well at least you have the AIM.
I don't have a copy of the 68 AIM so I can only give you a hint about where to look.
In my 71 AIM the info is in UPC 1 asm, Sheets F 1,F 2, etc.
These pages have to do with the installation of the soft top, the soft top hardware on the body, the soft top weatherstripping, and the soft top 'lid'.
The information on the wedge on the body (lock pillar) (which is very different by 71, or I'd gladly send you the page) is found on Sheet F4, Lid Striker, etc.
Look in that vicinity in your 68 AIM. There's also some information in the door section on Sheet K7 about the wedge on the door
It COULD be that the info isn't there, or isn't accurate since it appears getting the convertible doors to not shake was a problem that took some on going 'fixes'.
I guess this is the sort of thing that causes people with 68 cars to say how frustrating working on them can be…. continuing changes and or inaccurate information!
Believe me, if I had something to help you I'd send it, but I don't.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 254
From: Catlett VA
wedges
Hi ra,
Well at least you have the AIM.
I don't have a copy of the 68 AIM so I can only give you a hint about where to look.
In my 71 AIM the info is in UPC 1 asm, Sheets F 1,F 2, etc.
These pages have to do with the installation of the soft top, the soft top hardware on the body, the soft top weatherstripping, and the soft top 'lid'.
The information on the wedge on the body (lock pillar) (which is very different by 71, or I'd gladly send you the page) is found on Sheet F4, Lid Striker, etc.
Look in that vicinity in your 68 AIM. There's also some information in the door section on Sheet K7 about the wedge on the door
It COULD be that the info isn't there, or isn't accurate since it appears getting the convertible doors to not shake was a problem that took some on going 'fixes'.
I guess this is the sort of thing that causes people with 68 cars to say how frustrating working on them can be…. continuing changes and or inaccurate information!
Believe me, if I had something to help you I'd send it, but I don't.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan
Well at least you have the AIM.
I don't have a copy of the 68 AIM so I can only give you a hint about where to look.
In my 71 AIM the info is in UPC 1 asm, Sheets F 1,F 2, etc.
These pages have to do with the installation of the soft top, the soft top hardware on the body, the soft top weatherstripping, and the soft top 'lid'.
The information on the wedge on the body (lock pillar) (which is very different by 71, or I'd gladly send you the page) is found on Sheet F4, Lid Striker, etc.
Look in that vicinity in your 68 AIM. There's also some information in the door section on Sheet K7 about the wedge on the door
It COULD be that the info isn't there, or isn't accurate since it appears getting the convertible doors to not shake was a problem that took some on going 'fixes'.
I guess this is the sort of thing that causes people with 68 cars to say how frustrating working on them can be…. continuing changes and or inaccurate information!
Believe me, if I had something to help you I'd send it, but I don't.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 254
From: Catlett VA
AIM diagram
Thanks Alan. I looked carefully on the pages where the door, body and convert top latch are shown and there is nothing shown for the wedges. Great detail about the latch, hinges, bonding points and rivet points, etc. The alignment wedges for the convert top lid are well shown, so I'm not sure why they did not do the same for the door wedges, especially since shims are included in the kit and usually the AIM has instructions about shims. Probably would not have prevented my door from locking up, but I would have had the pieces installed correctly. When the piece I ordered for the 69 arrives, I can test fit it to see where it does the most good.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,283
Likes: 4,373
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi RA,
I really depended on the AIM when I began working on my car almost 25 years ago. Back then there was NO internet so there weren't many sources for help. So I HAD to learn to use it.
The AIM can be VERY difficult to find things in, and understanding the drawings be a puzzle, but it's still the best single source of information.
Regards,
Alan
I really depended on the AIM when I began working on my car almost 25 years ago. Back then there was NO internet so there weren't many sources for help. So I HAD to learn to use it.
The AIM can be VERY difficult to find things in, and understanding the drawings be a puzzle, but it's still the best single source of information.
Regards,
Alan
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 128
Likes: 29
From: Bloomfield Township Michigan
Hi ra,
Well at least you have the AIM.
I don't have a copy of the 68 AIM so I can only give you a hint about where to look.
In my 71 AIM the info is in UPC 1 asm, Sheets F 1,F 2, etc.
These pages have to do with the installation of the soft top, the soft top hardware on the body, the soft top weatherstripping, and the soft top 'lid'.
The information on the wedge on the body (lock pillar) (which is very different by 71, or I'd gladly send you the page) is found on Sheet F4, Lid Striker, etc.
Look in that vicinity in your 68 AIM. There's also some information in the door section on Sheet K7 about the wedge on the door
It COULD be that the info isn't there, or isn't accurate since it appears getting the convertible doors to not shake was a problem that took some on going 'fixes'.
I guess this is the sort of thing that causes people with 68 cars to say how frustrating working on them can be…. continuing changes and or inaccurate information!
Believe me, if I had something to help you I'd send it, but I don't.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan
Well at least you have the AIM.
I don't have a copy of the 68 AIM so I can only give you a hint about where to look.
In my 71 AIM the info is in UPC 1 asm, Sheets F 1,F 2, etc.
These pages have to do with the installation of the soft top, the soft top hardware on the body, the soft top weatherstripping, and the soft top 'lid'.
The information on the wedge on the body (lock pillar) (which is very different by 71, or I'd gladly send you the page) is found on Sheet F4, Lid Striker, etc.
Look in that vicinity in your 68 AIM. There's also some information in the door section on Sheet K7 about the wedge on the door
It COULD be that the info isn't there, or isn't accurate since it appears getting the convertible doors to not shake was a problem that took some on going 'fixes'.
I guess this is the sort of thing that causes people with 68 cars to say how frustrating working on them can be…. continuing changes and or inaccurate information!
Believe me, if I had something to help you I'd send it, but I don't.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan
Jeff
Last edited by jeffstuarts; Jan 5, 2016 at 04:37 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,683
Likes: 3,136
From: Shamong, NJ
The wedges you ordered (the ones pictured above), are not 69 door alignment wedges. The ones pictured are the lock pillar wedges, and they will not work to align the doors on a 68.
The lock pillar wedges go on the top of the lock pillar, next to the small lock pillar weatherstrip. This is the little piece of weatherstrip that fills the space on the body, between the weatherstrip at the top of the door, and the deck lid weatherstrip. On 68's and most 69's, that wedge is soft rubber, and molded as part of the lock pillar weatherstrip. On late 69's through 75, the "soft" wedge was eliminated from the weatherstrip, and replaced with the hard plastic wedges. The hard plastic wedges are installed along side of the lock pillar weatherstrip.
69's used the same rectangular plastic wedges on the body (the ones you installed on the doors), as the 68's. The long brass wedges were installed on the door, instead of the small metal rectangular ones.
If you want to use 69 style wedges, on your 68, the brass 69 wedges are available. The brass wedges sell for $35 each, and you should already have the plastic wedges,m from your 68 alignment wedge kit.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,294
Likes: 2,754
From: Charlotte NC
Better little late than never.....but being a convertible you could have jacked up the frame at the 'B' pillar area and it would have spread out the door gap and the door would have opened.
And just in case...you are aware that the third photo is POST#1...you might want to replace the screws so the heads are not sticking out. The screws should be flush and tapered like what you show in the second photo in POST#1.
DUB
And just in case...you are aware that the third photo is POST#1...you might want to replace the screws so the heads are not sticking out. The screws should be flush and tapered like what you show in the second photo in POST#1.
DUB
Last edited by DUB; Jan 7, 2016 at 07:13 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 254
From: Catlett VA
door wedges
Better little late than never.....but being a convertible you could have jacked up the frame at the 'B' pillar area and it would have spread out the door gap and the door would have opened.
And just in case...you are aware that the third photo is POST#1...you might want to replace the screws so the heads are not sticking out. The screws should be flush and tapered like what you show in the second photo in POST#1.
DUB
And just in case...you are aware that the third photo is POST#1...you might want to replace the screws so the heads are not sticking out. The screws should be flush and tapered like what you show in the second photo in POST#1.
DUB
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 254
From: Catlett VA
wedges
"I'm slowly learning to take "Before" pics "before" I open my toolbox" Doorgunner- I may start videotaping everything I do in the garage so I will not waste time. I removed the inside door panels last week, lubricated the window tracks and installed all new velcro tabs. Yesterday I started to re-install everything and wanted to have handy the trim tool that's pushes out the clips on the back of the door handle. I spent almost an hour looking for it, since it was not placed back in my tool box (by me). Finally found the little black tool on the black tray of my creeper seat, where I had already looked a couple times. Camouflage, my poor vision and failing memory wasted an hour and placed me in a less than chipper mood to complete the job. "Corvettes are fun cars to work on". (repeat several times)
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,294
Likes: 2,754
From: Charlotte NC
DUB, thanks. I did try jacking to "flex" the frame, but even doing that and hammering my plastic trim tools in the door gap did not spread the door gap enough. I actually had planned on replacing the round head screws. For some reason the wedges came from Eckler's with only two flat-head screws for the countersunk holes in the wedges and the rest were round head. I have a couple hundred of the correct ones in my spare fasteners box, but used the ones that were in the little bag with the wedges...........too much work to walk ten feet to get the correct ones. Won't do that again.
When I raise up the rear of a Corvette I get it in the center of the differential....and NORMALLY I do not do this ( but only under specific repairs)...but in a case like this...I would place two jack stands at the end of the frame at the end of the rocker panel in front of the rear wheel)...and when I lower my floor jack...I can see the gap widen....sometimes so much I have to stop because I feel the car is going to snap in half. And yes...the convertible top is down.
DUB
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 254
From: Catlett VA
wedges
WOW...I am glad to read that you tried that...and I am shocked that the door gap did not open up enough to allow the door to open. TOTALLY SHOCKED.
When I raise up the rear of a Corvette I get it in the center of the differential....and NORMALLY I do not do this ( but only under specific repairs)...but in a case like this...I would place two jack stands at the end of the frame at the end of the rocker panel in front of the rear wheel)...and when I lower my floor jack...I can see the gap widen....sometimes so much I have to stop because I feel the car is going to snap in half. And yes...the convertible top is down.
DUB
When I raise up the rear of a Corvette I get it in the center of the differential....and NORMALLY I do not do this ( but only under specific repairs)...but in a case like this...I would place two jack stands at the end of the frame at the end of the rocker panel in front of the rear wheel)...and when I lower my floor jack...I can see the gap widen....sometimes so much I have to stop because I feel the car is going to snap in half. And yes...the convertible top is down.
DUB
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RA,
I also noted that you used rounded head Phillips screws to secure the wedge to the body.
My orig. 68 has counter sunk wedges and counter sunk screws.
It may just be enough to prevent or cause the type of problem you have.
My 68 had a drivers side on the body brass wedge snapped in half.
I replaced it with same and no problems.
I left the older plastic pieces on the door in place as all fine there.
Hope this small observation helped.
Marshal
I also noted that you used rounded head Phillips screws to secure the wedge to the body.
My orig. 68 has counter sunk wedges and counter sunk screws.
It may just be enough to prevent or cause the type of problem you have.
My 68 had a drivers side on the body brass wedge snapped in half.
I replaced it with same and no problems.
I left the older plastic pieces on the door in place as all fine there.
Hope this small observation helped.
Marshal