hi. i'm thinking about switching to e-85. i run a holley 80528-2 hp 750dp. anybody been using this stuff? have read a lot of stuff about it and talked to a few drag racers about it. heard some bs and some facts. i want to help the heat problems and get a little performance to. access is not a problem. thanks.

 

As long as ALL the parts in the fuel system (tank to carb) are ethanol-capable and the carb has been calibrated to use E85, so be it. But...not sure why you would want to.

 

You'll get considerable less mileage with E85. Your carb will have to either be completely recalibrated fo E85 or replaced with an E85 compatible unit. E85 absorbs water like crazy so you wouldn't want it to sit in the tank long. A wide band AFR gauge connected to an O2 sensor should be used.

My 11.5:1 406 was set up to run E85 but since it isn't available close to where I live and keeping up with constant tuning and worrying about the engine being too lean was taking the fun out of driving it, I retuned it for 91 octane. E85 is great for real high compression engines but I doubt you'd get any more HP by just switching fuel.

 

E85 is always maligned on these forums, but for what its worth, I think its great. It burns cooler and cleaner too. Pull your heads after running it for a year and they will look brand new. It does make more HP at the same compression. Yes it get less MPG but it costs less too so that evens out.

 

thanks for the reply. i'm in it for the heat control.performance gain would be a plus.took the vette (71 sb)out for a spin friday and the outside temp was about 87. i have been just riding around the country side to see how everything is going to hold up (5 years doing reassembly stuff).noticed the heat was around 220. i don't like 220 and i cancelled the trip into town because of it. have the stock radiator (three core)with dual fans. hot sbc with sportsman II heads solid cam unknown specs but produces 5 in of vacuum. my experience with aluminum radiators has not been that great. not a reduction like they advertise. probably because of the 14 to one comp ratio. i'm not sure how these c-3's are cooled down on a hot central ohio summer day,but i'll have to try a few different things before i go all in with e-85.some of the guys i talked to at the drag strip said they had some minor problems getting up to operating temp. because of the cooling effect of e-85. gas mileage is not a concern.have a wide band already and have used it.i'll keep an eye on other options like a 4 row rad. but i would like to hear from other c-3 owners who have some hot stuff under the hood and how they keep it cool in the hot midwest.

 

Incorrect.. Gasoline produces more power than ethanol.. ethanol only allows higher compression to be used... in same engine, 10:1 compression, the gasoline will kick ethanols azz... It also requires a much higher Fuel to air mix than gasoline , and there goes your MPG ...Its highly corrosive on old fuel components.. your entire fuel system will need replacing to ethanol resistant materials.. as well as Carb ...oh, did I mention the water absorption from the air problem with that high concentrate of Ethanol? Very poor choice for cars that are not driven daily..

 

I will agree and disagree. If you run 105 Race gas and e85 in the same engine, but people dont. They run either 91 or 93 vs e85. So if you tune the exact same motor for e85, you will make more power, but yes, you will have to tune for it.

E85 and corrosive is a MYTH, that has been disproven, look online and you can see experiments showing parts in e85 soaking for months no damage. Now, does you 40 yr Old system likely need upgrading, yes. Will your carb need redone because of needing way more fuel, yes. New tank or hard lines? Thats ridiculous. Replace soft lines, carb, fuel filter and it will be fine. I have done it, no issues. Or you can buy into the fear and rumors online and spend more.

 

Dang dude, only 5 inches of vacuum? That's a serious cam. Is the ignition timing all sorted out? I would go back and look at the cooling system before switching to E85 and all the associated upgrades to run it, just my 2 cents. Besides flex fuel cars most of the stuff I read about high boost levels makes E85 necessary, but a NA motor should be able to use gasoline. E85 is not even available in CT that I know of, bummer for me.

 

Changing fuels to control engine heat is a seriously flawed approach. If you have all the 'improvements' to the stock cooling system that you mentioned, you have either selected the wrong components or you are missing something simple...like having a collapsed lower radiator hose (when at speed) or having a defective thermostat, or having a controller for those fans with wrong control settings.

If you have too much engine heat, work on that problem DIRECTLY. Don't try to 'stab' at it with obtuse strategies.

 

again,,incorrect... Fact not fiction

"There are all sorts of units of measure to quantify energy content; you can measure it in British Thermal Units, joules or even calories, just like you do food. A standard gallon of 93-octane gas contains about 114,500 BTU of energy, which is around 450 calories, or the energy equivalent of a double cheeseburger. A gallon of diesel runs about 129,500 BTU, and pure ethanol measures out to about 76,100 BTU. If you're wondering why these fuels -- which are all liquid hydrocarbons -- have different energy contents, you need only look at their relative densities. Diesel is the heaviest, followed by gasoline and then ethanol. And power is produced accordingly.. .... Ethanol is far less energy potential... this is science not speculation... as to corrosiveness, EVERY car maker had to completely change materials for fuel systems to resist ethanol corrosion... again, fact not speculation... If you think E-85 makes your car faster, pull alongside mine and I show you..

 

My 2011 ford edge sport says do not use e85. The reason is the corrosion ,they build some. Cas to operate on it.
I recently tried ethanol free gas in the same car and the mileage seems noticibly better.
My 79 runs 180 to 190 degrees max on the hottest florida day, not sure why people have such issues.

 

You Are trying to win an argument by citing irrelevant science. No one is arguing the amount of power potiential in one gallon of gasoline and one gallon of e85 is the same, as you correctly note, its not. A engine tuned for e85 will use much more fuel than a similar motor tuned for gas, so amount theoretical power per unit of fuel is irrelevant.

The reason manufacturers say do or dont run e85 in a modern car is also irrelevant because that deals with injector sizing (and Fords new direct injection technology while great cant Flow enough fuel for e85) and tuning. Flex fuel cars have a sensor to detect the fule used and adjust the tune accorningly.

And racing your car is likewise irrelevant as you would know, that brings in way more factors than just e85.

Hey you dont Like e85, fine. But it does have amazing capabilities and people need to see if its right for them. Lots of falsehoods and myths out there - and here too clearly.

 

Sorry but nothing I posted is a myth.. Its easy enough to verify ..numbers don t lie, Ethanol produces far less power. In equal street engines, E85 fails miserably.. And anyone using it in an occasional use 40 year old car is asking for problems .. But , Its your car, fill er up! I ll stick with 93 octane Gasoline

 

wow, what a can of worms i opened up.thanks for the reply.ignition system is good to go.34 total all in at 2000rpm. don't know the specs of the engine but has world prod. heads came with team G (i replaced with perf. rpm)looked like pro built then handed over to buba to install.just thinking about the e-85 stuff right now but i won't put up with the hot engine stuff very long. heat kills.

 

thanks for the reply.just weighing my options for now but i won't put up with a hot engine very long.i'll see what i can fabricate to help. btw if mileage was an issue i wouldn't be driving this vette.

 

hi 71,thanks for the reply.lower hose feels solid,although i don't know if it is smashed at speed. has the coil in it.no thermostat, fans run at start up and can be switched off if needed.don't have that much seat time in this vette but i'm watching the gauges and using my eyes and ears.i wouldn't call this cooling system as having a bunch of improvements and if anything would be better if it had the stock fan shroud and the engine driven fan. i might try that if all else fails. couple of my friends that use e-85 say if i go that route my heat problems would be over. just weighing my options now.

 

No t-stat is a problem. What psi cap are you running? What kind of water pump? What about air in the system. What about you rad seals? Are they deteriorated? Are they even there? Had 2 seals missing and had a similar problem. Until I put new ones in this spring, then my temp right at 180-190 depending on the day.

 

Having no stat is not a significant problem; but paired with a hi-flo pump could be an issue. For the radiator to be effective, you would like to get significant temp drop in fluid as it passes through it. With no stat restriction in the system, coolant may flow thru the rad so quickly that there is very little temp drop from inlet to outlet. If that happens while that pump and engine are making more heat, you could get into a problematic situation. Folks say that can't happen, but they are not considering a condition with reduced heat rejection due to high flow rate.

Other things to consider are the NEED for a lower air dam under the nose [to deflect air up into the radiator]; the NEED for assured airflow thru the radiator and not around it (seals, and shroud to whatever fan system is in place); use of all specified drive belts...especially those driving the water pump; drive belts in good condition (not glazed on side/drive surfaces); and adequate open area for hot engine compartment air to be exhausted {yes, those side vents ARE important}. And, if you have headers on the engine, engine compartment heating is even worse.

Just make sure the 'easier' stuff is OK before going to extremes.

 

See if you can use stronger mechanical advance springs and raise the "all in" timing higher in the RPM range, at least 2500 to 2800. IDK if that will lower temps, but 2000RPM is too early

 

thank you very much for the reply. cast iron water pump,don't know about air in the system but have been looking at an air bleed valve.not much money and may help.12 pound cap.not sure what you mean about rad. seals.and not to sure that a t-stat will help,once i go past 160 that t-stat is along for the ride.i'm going to hook up my manual water temp. gauge this week and make another comparison with the stock gauge.had a minor problem with parts store sensors.found one in the garage and it seems to be pretty close but i was checking it in the spring. i'll put the manual gauge where i can see it through the hood scoop and go for a ride when it's hot out.then i'll know for sure if there is a bad heat problem.