Morel will no doubt be the highest quality you will ever get in each price range category. They tried to get to a lower price point for folks who weren't building radical stuff...but their quality is always good. The various versions are built to different needs for tolerances to control the "pump up" issue you mentioned and the type of cam/rpm it will see.

Pump up happens when control is lost in the valvetrain with too much RPM/not enough spring, flexy pushrods, inadequate oils etc etc. You've adjusted the lifter to have the internal plunger down in the lifter to make up for any clearance changes with wear. When a valve floats or something similar, there is a lot of clearance all of a sudden and the lifter plunger does what it is supposed to do and tries to make up for that clearance. Then when the valve closes the plunger is still extended too far and it holds the valve off the seat somewhat. The "limited travel" designs only allow a little bit of movement and aren't as likely to hold a valve off the seat. But they are typically noiser. It's all a tradeoff.

The best thing any hyd lifter can do is be quiet. That's what they were designed for. As we've moved to more aggressive cams and RPM over the years, lifter design has tried to keep up with things so we can have our cake and eat it too. Small blocks are generally pretty forgiving and LS motors are even better. But they've got cams made on much larger cores that allow for a better lobe contour, a lot stiffer shaft, short pushrods, light valves and retainers/springs etc. It's all a package...but a good HR can easily go 7000 RPM in a smallblock these days....

JIM

 

Cloyes timing gear set, and Adjustable cover.

The cover is a little thicker then stock so I had to mill the water pump bolts.

 

Of course which cam is in after 40 more years depends on how much you drive it. A mild flat tappet can last a long time...but again...there are huge quality issues to pay attention to these days. The OEM's haven't made a flat tappet in forever so all the cost savings the mfg's could blend into a million part order by the OEM's is gone. Hence they don't make as many and the quality of available cores has gone down. The good cores are still available, but cost more due to limited demand. Lifters especially have that issue for flat tappets. DO NOT use cheap lifters for any cam, especially a flat tappet. If you go flat tappet, I'd stay away from the "Xtreme" type or similar. They are typically noisier and have a harder time with longevity. They DO make more power though!

It's the same thing with the "retro" lifters. Not a huge market for them. There are folks who've successfully used some HR lifters out of V6 junkyard engines (can buy OEM ones cheap too and they work fine for limited lift/rpm) and drilled/tapped the lifter valley to install that hold down plate you mentioned above. Not a hard deal to do and can save a ton of bucks if you don't mind a little work. Do some searching, you'll see the idea. Or if you ever decide to build a whole motor, just pick up an easy to find later model block already setup for HR's. Very easy to find.

You've got a good shortblock now with low miles that should include 4 bolt mains, steel crank and forged pistons. Use some nice small chamber heads to get compression up and a decent HR cam/intake/headers and you'll have a heck of a lot of fun.

Not sure how much a '79 will ever be worth... but it's a "family" car and that is worth more than the $$$ ever will. Stuff like that stays in the family and gets passed along, not sold...at least the way I think. If you never sell it, you've never lost a penny. You can always walk outside and touch whatever it was you bought. That's what I tell my wife!

It doesn't have much power anyway, so if you can get it up over 400HP it will be a lot more fun to drive and likely improve mileage too. A Vette is a heck of a good place to start on any project..the "bones" are already there. They can handle/brake incredibly well without all the trick of the week stuff if you don't want to add it.

JIM

 

Those are REALLY nice covers and a great "nice to have".

JIM

 

You sound like I did back when I was building by engine. Difference is I started with a ZZ4 short block that was made for OEM roller system, so it was a no brainer.
What I wanted to add was that at the cam group you are looking at, it is right at the breakover point where the benefits of a roller cam over-ride what can be had with flat tappet cams. I got this not from experience, but reading the numerous books I purchased. If I was starting with a non-roller block, I would stick with flat tappet cam unless you really want to spend all that money.

 

Summit warranted my Comp Cams XE268 last year. No questions asked. The warranty period is one year.

 

I rebuilt my 350 a few years ago. I added the retro roller to my engine.
All told it was just a tad over $1000 more to add the retro vs the flat tappet.
However I believe that at this point in history you are better off going with the roller due to the reasons Jim stated. Quality of the flat tappet is just not there any more and the work involved in repairing the damage from a failed flat tappet is worth the extra $1000.

I am using a roller cam from Lunati.
Austempered not billet.

Blended carbon polymer fuel pump push rod from howards pt# 94475. The bronze tipped pushrod started mushrooming immediately after install.

Melonized (hardened) timing gear as required by Lunati for the cam.

Howards retro roller lifters pt# 91164N. Good for 6500 RPM.

A cam button for cam walk.

Used standard timing cover. But had to reinforce with a piece of sheet metal glued to the out side to keep the cam from flexing it forward. This caused issues/wear with the bushing in the distrubitor as it was dragged forward by the walking cam.
It was cheaper but in the long run cost me a lot of extra farting around to get the cam to stop walking forward. Had to dimple the cover then put some clay on it then install then take cover off and check the thickness of clay and repeat until achieved .005" form cam button to the dimple, then fill dimple with JB and glue sheet metal to the cover. Works fine now, bit of a hassle though.

 

Search for my 78 L82 build thread.... AFR and roller cam conversion, and my 383 build in the C2 section.

 

I rebuilt my motor over the past few years as part of a frame off (78 L-82) and converted it to HR. You've got great information above, but let me see if I can add some tips....

* The Cloyes adjustable timing cover in the pics above is a really nice cover. I used one myself, but there are a few gotchas to be aware of.

• It is thicker and you will either need to mill the cover as shown above for the back of the water pump bolts, or take a surface grinder to the water pump and make some clearance.
• It has a smaller area for the mounting bolts than the standard cover. You can see the smaller allen head screws used in the pic above instead of the stock bolts. I used ARP small head stainless bolts and still wound up grinding some of the flange off to get clearance.
• You will not be able to use your original harmonic balancer with that cover. The L-82 came with an 8" balancer, and that case will hit that big of a balancer. I did exactly what is shown in the picture as well, a 6 3/4 inch fluidamper model.
• With the smaller balancer, you will need a new timing indicator. I used a Moroso adjustable unit which is fine, just be aware that you need to be able to locate TDC to set the adjustable pointer. This can be done with or without the heads on the motor, I did it without the heads on.

* Get a good set of full roller rockers to go with the cam, they will also reduce the friction of the valvetrain. Be sure to check the clearance with your aluminum valve covers as you could have issues in two directions

• The baffles around the vents could interfere with the rockers themselves. I had to crimp mine some to make clearance
• Check to see if your heads come with raised valve cover mounting surfaces (my AFR 195s did). If they don't you might have height issues with the stock L-82 valve covers. First opton would be to grind off the drip tabs on the underside, ut if that isn't enough, a set of spacers might be needed.

* Definitely buy an adjustable push rod and checker springs to make sure you get the right valvetrain geometry when you assemble. Push Rods tend to flex at higher speeds, which decreases your lift. Two solutions here, use larger diameter rods (I couldn't on the AFRs), or order good quality thick wall rods. I used Smith Brothers .120 wall thickness rods.

Good Luck, the benefit is worth the time and effort.

 

The Morel Street Series is hyd quality lifter that shares the same sizing tolerance as the more expensive ultra pro series. The are designed for up to .375" lobe lift. They now share a live axle with wire locs to retain the axle instead of a swedged axle design like the OEM stuff.

I sell around 1200 sets a year of this series and have very little issue. The lifter is built with USA and Mexico components. No Chinese stuff.

 

Honestly, in all the cam selection and retrofit roller confusion, about the only thing that I've heard repeatedly and universally is that Morel lifters are the highest quality for the money you can get. This may be the ONLY really simple part of my decision.

When the company jumps onto my internet forum post and provides direct feedback, I'm pretty impressed.

Something better for less money generally doesn't exist, so I was naturally skeptical.


Adam

 

Can anyone on here help clarify what lighter weight lifters do for you?


Adam

 

As I understand it, a higher Rpm capability. Less mass to push up and particularly, for the valve springs, to push back down to follow the cam profile.
If the spring force is inadequate for the RPM and cam profile then the cam profile may move away from the lifter faster than it can follow. This of course is not desirable from a lifter and cam wear consideration. Not to mention what the loss of valve train control may do to power or worse yet valve control and in worse case scenario the piston could hit the exhaust valve before it can close.

Most of us are not going to spinning 7000+ RPM in a street motor though. 6000 is typically fast enough and probably beyond peak power for the balance of cam profiles usually found in a street car.

 

Timing cover: What makes a good one?

I know this is a bit of a departure from the original intent of the thread, but as it's already started to go that way....


What exactly makes for a good timing cover? I hear people saying that the Cloyes is great, but what does that mean? Just that it's a thick piece of metal that's visually attractive?

In one breath I hear people say how awesome it is and then there's the discussion about having the replace the harmonic balancer and cut notches out of either it or the stock waterpump... I think my definition of a good cover might be different but I'm not looking to have to hack or modify anything.

Can I replace my timing chain, install a cam button and just put back on the stock timing cover after dimpling it to hold the cam button on? (Sounds like it) -then I don't have to get a new harmonic balancer or cut notches into anything, right?


Adam

 

This I don't understand at all. Why do I need new push rods when switching from a flat tappet to a retrofit hydraulic cam? -Is it simply because the roller lifters are longer than the OEM flat tappet lifters? (If so, why didn't the retrofit roller people just make them the same length so no one has to mess around with this?)


Also, assuming that I do need to change to new rods because of this, why can't I just subtract the length of the new roller lifters from the length of the old roller lifters and then just buy rods that are that much shorter? -Why would I need to manually measure anything? (because I do NOT trust my measuring)

-If anyone else has an L82 and has done a retrofit lifter kit with the same lifters as me, can't I just ask them what length rods they used and use the same? (Why don't' the lifter companies just say "if you put these in a SBC, you need x length rods?)

-Me measuring anything is WAY too prone to error, and maybe I just don't understand enough to understand why I would ever need to measure anything.



The current recommendation is to tear my engine down completely and buy my new heads, new cam, new lifters and then assemble everything - then measure with this measuring rod thing, and then place an order for new length rods and then wait for shipping and THEN finish the build? -I'd WAY rather just buy everything up front and then install it all at once and be done with it. I can't comprehend doing all this and then just waiting to figure out the rod length via measuring when this seems like it should be really standard stuff. (Because this sounds super cukoo crazy to me, but I've heard the recommendation probably 3 times already- it makes me feel like I'm missing some really important piece of information or else this is being made way harder than it needs to be; it just feels like good planning and doing the math would be way more accurate than manually measuring.)


What am I missing?

Adam

 

And now, for my next dumb newb question: is the socket looking thing is the "button" that prevents a roller cam from pushing itself out of the block? (I've never seen what one looks like, but I've heard about them now...)




Adam

 

Weight on the cam side of the rocker fulcrum is not of importance, weight on the valve side of the rocker fulcrum is important.

Hyd rollers are naturally heavy. A roller will make more power under the curve.

 

If building from scratch there is no way to know in advance what the perfect pushrod length is you have to measure it

Use one of these make it easy
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4758-1
https://www.summitracing.com/search/...ength-checkers

 

People keep saying that, but without any explanation; it honestly doesn't make any sense, though.


Before you edited your response it said that the issue is that the gasket thickness and deck height can vary. My point is that those things can all be accounted for in a calculation, I can go pull the stock deck height of an L82 from another thread and I can input my gasket thickness and it should all go into a "rod length calculator" and spit out the new rod length.


Adam

 

See if this helps.