Break-in oil
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 84
From: Round Rock TX
Break-in oil
I have mostly decided on using Joe Gibb's Driven hot rod oil in my engine, but not sure about break-in oil. It's a new flat tappet cam, and was possibly thinking about their break-in oil as well.
Should I consider a different oil? I'm looking for something that is readily available, and can order this from Summit.
Should I consider a different oil? I'm looking for something that is readily available, and can order this from Summit.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,098
Likes: 378
From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
I don't know if you rebuilt your motor or someone else did. If you rebuilt it then you would know if you coated the correct parts with the correct lube or not. If you did then nothing much is really needed. Most break in lube can't do much better than good oil. Plenty of vendors will sell you "the good stuff" though.
If you coated your bearings, cam and paste on the rings then just make sure drain that oil as soon as break in done.
Good luck.
If you coated your bearings, cam and paste on the rings then just make sure drain that oil as soon as break in done.
Good luck.
Limping across the line
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,299
Likes: 109
From: Peoria Az
Talked with several HP machine shops in m y area last year when I was searching for Gibbs BR30. A few shops said they had problems when they used Gibbs break in oil. It seems there was a formula change and the newer stuff wasnt up to the task.
I elected to go with Comp cams break in oil since I was running their hardware. That way there would be no question on what was used during break in.
Last LS motors I did I used Amsoil break in oil for the first 100 miles.
My Olds 455 I used Amsoil break in oil
Drained that changed filters and refilled with Amsoil Zrod 10-30.
I elected to go with Comp cams break in oil since I was running their hardware. That way there would be no question on what was used during break in.
Last LS motors I did I used Amsoil break in oil for the first 100 miles.
My Olds 455 I used Amsoil break in oil
Drained that changed filters and refilled with Amsoil Zrod 10-30.
Last edited by AzMotorhead; Sep 4, 2016 at 12:41 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 971
From: Tennessee/Rhode Island
I used Driven breakin oil on my rebuilt 355 (June 2014) for a 30 minute break in (with a ROLLER CAM) followed by a short drive of full throttle accelerations from 2,000-4,000 RPM for about 5 times to fully seat the rings (per the builders instructions). Changed the oil/filter to Driven Conventional oil 15W-50 for the first 750 miles. Have run Mobil 1 0W-40 European Formula since then (full true synthetic) and the engine is flawless with zero oil issues.
Note: All Gen 1 engines should follow a breakin procedure whether flat or ROLLER CAM per my builders direction and also supported by various articles from oil manufacturers (including Mobil) who specifically mention that roller cams require a breakin just like flat tappet cams....I often see mentioned on the forum that roller cams do not require a breakin..not true.
Note: All Gen 1 engines should follow a breakin procedure whether flat or ROLLER CAM per my builders direction and also supported by various articles from oil manufacturers (including Mobil) who specifically mention that roller cams require a breakin just like flat tappet cams....I often see mentioned on the forum that roller cams do not require a breakin..not true.
Last edited by jb78L-82; Sep 4, 2016 at 07:28 AM.
Had a 1976 L-82, 4-sp
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,338
Likes: 1,213
From: Some days your the dog and some days your the hydrant.
Royal Canadian Navy
I'll just say that I did not use any break-in oils when I installed my retro roller because it was "not" required. Anyway, car is running fine after a few thousand miles.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 84
From: Round Rock TX
It's got the lube on the bearings and moly type paste on the cam lobes. It was rebuilt twenty plus years ago, and hasn't been run. I have looked things over and things appear to be good still. Still planning on prelubing the heck out of it before the first firing.
Years past run a decent oil with GM EOS, for break in but with all the oil changes no clue what's best. Thought about putting a roller cam, but couldn't justify the $1k to do it.
Hoping to get the engine in this month and fire it up snotty thereafter.
Years past run a decent oil with GM EOS, for break in but with all the oil changes no clue what's best. Thought about putting a roller cam, but couldn't justify the $1k to do it.
Hoping to get the engine in this month and fire it up snotty thereafter.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 1,171
From: Hermosa
All Gen 1 engines should follow a breakin procedure whether flat or ROLLER CAM per my builders direction and also supported by various articles from oil manufacturers (including Mobil) who specifically mention that roller cams require a breakin just like flat tappet cams.
What process is taking place while "breaking in" a roller cam?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 971
From: Tennessee/Rhode Island
An article in Vette magazine a few years ago, titled, All About Oil which I still have and I quote here from the article,
"Flat Tappet engine builders are typically conscientious about using a proper, high- ZDDP break-in oil like Brad Penn grade 1 30 weight to protect internal components. However, some roller-motor owners mistakenly believe that their engines don't need break-in oil, In reality, without a purpose specific lubricant like Driven BR Break-In oil, those roller mills will suffer the same particulate contamination-and potential bearing failures-that a flat tappet engine would."
I base my statement on these 2 sources.
Here is more info from the article:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ch-2014-a.html
Last edited by jb78L-82; Sep 4, 2016 at 05:52 PM.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!
Michael S. Palmer
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 1,171
From: Hermosa
The guy who did my bottom end told me specifically to do it and he knows a ton more than I do about breaking in engines since he does this for a living. I can ask him and he will have a very good reason but also this:
An article in Vette magazine a few years ago, titled, All About Oil which I still have and I quote here from the article,
"Flat Tappet engine builders are typically conscientious about using a proper, high- ZDDP break-in oil like Brad Penn grade 1 30 weight to protect internal components. However, some roller-motor owners mistakenly believe that their engines don't need break-in oil, In reality, without a purpose specific lubricant like Driven BR Break-In oil, those roller mills will suffer the same particulate contamination-and potential bearing failures-that a flat tappet engine would."
I base my statement on these 2 sources.
Here is more info from the article:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ch-2014-a.html
An article in Vette magazine a few years ago, titled, All About Oil which I still have and I quote here from the article,
"Flat Tappet engine builders are typically conscientious about using a proper, high- ZDDP break-in oil like Brad Penn grade 1 30 weight to protect internal components. However, some roller-motor owners mistakenly believe that their engines don't need break-in oil, In reality, without a purpose specific lubricant like Driven BR Break-In oil, those roller mills will suffer the same particulate contamination-and potential bearing failures-that a flat tappet engine would."
I base my statement on these 2 sources.
Here is more info from the article:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ch-2014-a.html
I can understand using an oil that allows for the rings to seat. Other than that I can't understand how a roller bearing riding on a cam lobe NEEDS to have a break-in specific oil. I just used an off the shelf dyno oil that was not a fuel conservation formula with my roller and have not seen any ill effects due to that decision. Good compression, no oil consumption etc.
One of the advantages of roller lifters is the ability to take a lifter off of one lobe or cam and apply it to another lobe or cam. If there were some specific wear pattern achieved in a roller lifter this would not be possible.
So I would definitely be interested in what your mechanic has to say in regards to a break-in period for the roller cam. Always interested in what the pro's have to say, as they do this every day.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 971
From: Tennessee/Rhode Island
This sounds like a general lubrication issue not specifically a break-in type failure.
I can understand using an oil that allows for the rings to seat. Other than that I can't understand how a roller bearing riding on a cam lobe NEEDS to have a break-in specific oil. I just used an off the shelf dyno oil that was not a fuel conservation formula with my roller and have not seen any ill effects due to that decision. Good compression, no oil consumption etc.
One of the advantages of roller lifters is the ability to take a lifter off of one lobe or cam and apply it to another lobe or cam. If there were some specific wear pattern achieved in a roller lifter this would not be possible.
So I would definitely be interested in what your mechanic has to say in regards to a break-in period for the roller cam. Always interested in what the pro's have to say, as they do this every day.
I can understand using an oil that allows for the rings to seat. Other than that I can't understand how a roller bearing riding on a cam lobe NEEDS to have a break-in specific oil. I just used an off the shelf dyno oil that was not a fuel conservation formula with my roller and have not seen any ill effects due to that decision. Good compression, no oil consumption etc.
One of the advantages of roller lifters is the ability to take a lifter off of one lobe or cam and apply it to another lobe or cam. If there were some specific wear pattern achieved in a roller lifter this would not be possible.
So I would definitely be interested in what your mechanic has to say in regards to a break-in period for the roller cam. Always interested in what the pro's have to say, as they do this every day.
http://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/0...ller-camshaft/
You need to use a break-in oil for roller cams with rebuilt engines not for the roller cam itself but the particle matter created by other engine components wearing in that can effect the roller cam (this reason was stated as well in my other source from Vette Magazine):
"While the rings need to be seated in a roller, an oil that “wears-in” the rings will create a lot of fine metal particulate, and that particulate is a killer for your roller cam. According to Timken, the number-one reason for premature roller bearing failure is particulate contamination. An engine creates more particulate wear metal during break-in than at any other time. In fact the “normal” wear metals for a new engine are up to four times higher than after a engine has finished breaking-in—hence the term “breaking-in.”
"Another aspect of roller cam break-in to consider is the high spring pressures and contact loads the cam, lifters, pushrods, and rockers see. While these loads would spell death to a flat-tappet cam, the high ZDDP anti-wear package of a break-in oil also protects these components during that critical break-in period"
The bottom line is pretty clear and why my builder highly recommended a break in for my roller cam...cheap insurance from problems down the road and why roller cams should be broken in just like a flat tappet cam.
Last edited by jb78L-82; Sep 5, 2016 at 12:10 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
I also use Joe Gibbs(Driven) oil. The last couple break ins I did, I used either BR30 or BR50. Both work well. I normally dump the first batch after the break in and some light engine loading. Then run the same stuff again for another couple hundred miles or so.. Then switch to whatever you want. I normally go to FR50 full synthetic.
Not a bad idea to throw a bottle of ZDDP break in additive as well.. I do...
Not a bad idea to throw a bottle of ZDDP break in additive as well.. I do...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 1,171
From: Hermosa
Pretty sure the answer is here:
http://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/0...ller-camshaft/
You need to use a break-in oil for roller cams with rebuilt engines not for the roller cam itself but the particle matter created by other engine components wearing in that can effect the roller cam (this reason was stated as well in my other source from Vette Magazine):
"While the rings need to be seated in a roller, an oil that “wears-in” the rings will create a lot of fine metal particulate, and that particulate is a killer for your roller cam. According to Timken, the number-one reason for premature roller bearing failure is particulate contamination. An engine creates more particulate wear metal during break-in than at any other time. In fact the “normal” wear metals for a new engine are up to four times higher than after a engine has finished breaking-in—hence the term “breaking-in.”
"Another aspect of roller cam break-in to consider is the high spring pressures and contact loads the cam, lifters, pushrods, and rockers see. While these loads would spell death to a flat-tappet cam, the high ZDDP anti-wear package of a break-in oil also protects these components during that critical break-in period"
The bottom line is pretty clear and why my builder highly recommended a break in for my roller cam...cheap insurance from problems down the road and why roller cams should be broken in just like a flat tappet cam.
http://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/0...ller-camshaft/
You need to use a break-in oil for roller cams with rebuilt engines not for the roller cam itself but the particle matter created by other engine components wearing in that can effect the roller cam (this reason was stated as well in my other source from Vette Magazine):
"While the rings need to be seated in a roller, an oil that “wears-in” the rings will create a lot of fine metal particulate, and that particulate is a killer for your roller cam. According to Timken, the number-one reason for premature roller bearing failure is particulate contamination. An engine creates more particulate wear metal during break-in than at any other time. In fact the “normal” wear metals for a new engine are up to four times higher than after a engine has finished breaking-in—hence the term “breaking-in.”
"Another aspect of roller cam break-in to consider is the high spring pressures and contact loads the cam, lifters, pushrods, and rockers see. While these loads would spell death to a flat-tappet cam, the high ZDDP anti-wear package of a break-in oil also protects these components during that critical break-in period"
The bottom line is pretty clear and why my builder highly recommended a break in for my roller cam...cheap insurance from problems down the road and why roller cams should be broken in just like a flat tappet cam.
I can understand this process. I suppose you don't want high RPM's until you change the filter so as to not bypass the filter and run the risk of contaminating the rollers in the lifters by re-introducing particulate into the oil or any particulate in the oil bypassing the filter.
Thanks Jb!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,098
Likes: 378
From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
I'd have to look this up again but too much zinc will be counterproductive. It no longer acts as a protective coating. IIRC you want your oil zinc concentration something in the 1000-1200ppm range.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,294
Likes: 2,753
From: Charlotte NC
But the levels of ZDDP can be higher than what you wrote...due to the AMSOIL Z-rod oil I use is higher than 1200ppm.....and the DOMINATOR racing oil is even higher than that.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...st-data-5.html
POST# 95 shows a good list of oils.
DUB
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 9,063
Likes: 2,736
2022 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
While I typically try not to speak about things I am not sure about,......if break in is required on roller engines, then why is there no break in procedures written in my brand new car and truck manuals....and please, no conspiracy theories on the auto manufacturers want engines to fail.....because truth is, they don't. The manuals I have read typically just recommend staying under certain RPM's for so many miles, but none of the typical multiple step procedures that often show up on Forums.
And, interestingly enough, the recommendations for these stated are from the people who are selling break in oil!
I just find it all a little bit like trying to fix something that is not broke...but heh, what do I know. Its like pre-oiling an engine, it certainly can't hurt, but tell me this.....are NEW car and truck engines pre-oiled?
And, interestingly enough, the recommendations for these stated are from the people who are selling break in oil!
I just find it all a little bit like trying to fix something that is not broke...but heh, what do I know. Its like pre-oiling an engine, it certainly can't hurt, but tell me this.....are NEW car and truck engines pre-oiled?
Last edited by Shovels and Vettes; Sep 6, 2016 at 07:19 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 84
From: Round Rock TX
I agree with 'too much ZDDP is counter productive' You are correct.
But the levels of ZDDP can be higher than what you wrote...due to the AMSOIL Z-rod oil I use is higher than 1200ppm.....and the DOMINATOR racing oil is even higher than that.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...st-data-5.html
POST# 95 shows a good list of oils.
DUB
But the levels of ZDDP can be higher than what you wrote...due to the AMSOIL Z-rod oil I use is higher than 1200ppm.....and the DOMINATOR racing oil is even higher than that.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...st-data-5.html
POST# 95 shows a good list of oils.
DUB
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,736
Likes: 56
From: anchorage ak
I coat the cam and bearings, soak the lifterz and wipe down the cylinder walls with GM E.O.S assembly lube (bought from the parts room st the GM parts room)and add 1/4 cup to every quart conventional oil that I add to the engine for break in on a flat tappet cam and change to the intended oil after I break in the camshat. On a roller cams, i soak the lifters coat the bearings and wipe down the cylinder walls and swap at 500 miles.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,689
Likes: 174
From: Deerfield Illinois
2022 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
I also use Joe Gibbs(Driven) oil. The last couple break ins I did, I used either BR30 or BR50. Both work well. I normally dump the first batch after the break in and some light engine loading. Then run the same stuff again for another couple hundred miles or so.. Then switch to whatever you want. I normally go to FR50 full synthetic.
Not a bad idea to throw a bottle of ZDDP break in additive as well.. I do...
Not a bad idea to throw a bottle of ZDDP break in additive as well.. I do...
Be careful with the additives added to break in oil, Mobil for example does not recommend any added ZDDP additive because it can screw up the oil formulation and cause harm. I know other oil manufacturers have this disclaimer too