NewbVetteGuy

Well, I'm getting closer to build day. Ordered my FIRST fuel injection intake finally.

Trying to figure out some of the assembly bits and tools required.


The cam degree wheel I can borrow for free from O'Reilly's.


The pushrod checkers and valve train geometry checkers still confuse me to no end...


To use the valve train geometry checkers, I have to install the special low-pressure checking springs to use them right?
-In order to do that I need a valve spring compressor tool, right? -But if I'm compressing the valve springs to take them off-then how do I ensure that I got them re-installed at exactly the same height?

Removing the springs honestly freaks me out!


I'm also not sure which pushrod length checker I should buy as they come in specific ranges of lengths? -How do I even know what length checker to buy?



For the cam installation tools/handles: Many of them seem to say that they're not for roller cams... what the heck handle do I use for an SBC with a roller conversion cam?!??




Anyone recommend a good top-end assembly book, ideally with pictures?

The old Vizard "How to Rebuild Your Small Block Chevy" book seems to not have been updated in actuality for several decades and doesn't even cover roller conversion cams or lifters.

The "Reher-Morrison Championship Assembly" book seems VERY up-to-date, but it's 400 pages and basically a text book for people going to engine building / racing school, so it seems like MASSIVE overkill for me.

"Modern Engine Blueprinting Techniques: A Practical Guide to Precision Engine Building (Pro)" by Mike Mavrigian again seems very up-to-date, but massive overkill for me.


I'm also confused at how I can possibly figure out the correct valve stem length when I have hydraulic lifters and while the engine isn't running they're not going to be filled with oil and will be internally collapsed...

Getting super overwhelmed...

Adam

NewbVetteGuy

What tool do I use to chase the threads in my block and get them all cleaned out after removing my old heads and the gasket residue?

Setting what I want to call the valve lash (although I don't think it's called that with hydraulic retro rollers) is also pretty intimidating.


Adam

71VetteLover

If you're not using any exotic parts you don't need any exotic checking tools. As you're using a retro-roller cam you'll need the recommended push rods and valve springs for that cam. To measure the installed spring height you need a machinist's ruler or you can use the "depth" feature of a common dial caliper. To clean the head bolt threads you need a tap handle and a 7/16"-14 tap (national coarse). The hydraulic lifters have a spring inside that is about 5 pounds so when you go to adjust the hydraulic lifters just screw the rocker arm nut down until the rocker arm can't be easily wiggled with your fingertip. Then go 1/2 turn more to center the plunger. I made these tools about 40 years ago; the spring compressor from a 5/16" X 1-1/4" contractor's stake bent to a 75 degree angle and the spark plug air adapters from old spark plugs that I broke the center ceramic out and tapped them 3/8" NPT then screwed 1/4" X 3/8" NPT brass bushings into them (with red LocTite on their threads).

I think you're making it a lot harder than it really is.

76strokervette

This may help.

Rodnok1

Cam handle can just be a long bolt, I have retrofit roller cam and. Nothing special about installing it.
Adjustable push rod length checker...

Nothing has changed basically in sbc building in a looooong time so any decent book will suffice.

I can't tell you how many sbc I've slapped together with zero special tools besides a ring compressor and torque wrench.

What timing setup are you looking to use?
Depending on cam brass distributor gear may be needed also.

NewbVetteGuy

The cam doesn't come with any recommended push rod lengths. I already have the appropriate springs.

What push rod length -roughly, should an SBC 350 with Profiler heads, 1.6 ratio RRs (Comp Ultra Pro Magnum), and a retro roller cam have? -I just need ball park to order the special measuring push rod.


Cool, I own neither of these tools, which would you recommend and what is the procedure to do the measuring?



Awesome! I'll add that to my list; appreciate it!




Half of what you're saying in this paragraph I don't really understand, but it seems like you're explaining how to set the "preload" / "lash adjustment" on the lifters / rocker arm nuts for when I actually have the correct length push rods already installed-- My question is how can I even correctly measure for the right length push rods if the roller lifters have a spring in them?

The 2nd half of that paragraph went way over my head- like Charlie Brown's teacher talking: "wah, wah, wah"; way too technical for me.



Adam

NewbVetteGuy

It helps with some stuff, but I'm not sure it helps with any of the specific questions that I asked.

My heads are already assembled; when I take the springs off of one intake and one exhaust valve and put the checker springs on, how do I know that I put them back in the proper place? -Same question when I put the original springs back on again.


If I'm going through the procedure in the video, I need to already have purchased the adjustable length rod thingy- how do I know which length to buy?

When you're adjusting the adjustable length rod thingy, do you need to worry about the hydraulic roller lifter not being filled with oil or does the internal spring keep it roughly where it should be?



Adam

Rodnok1

Be careful with a tap.. A thread chaser a better way to do it.

71VetteLover

This guy is giving completely wrong information. You don't draw a line from the center of the pivot to the center of the roller but rather to the lower surface of the roller; the contact point that touches the tip of the valve.

71VetteLover

The factory used a tap to cut the threads so you can use another tap of the same size to "chase" the threads. But as far as spark plug threads go you MUST use a special spark plug tap that is smaller in diameter than an ordinary 14 mm bolt thread tap.

71VetteLover

Don't pay any attention to the video because it's dealing with racing engines that have abnormally high valve lifts that are way beyond street engine lifts AND the information given in the video is completely wrong. Roller camshafts for street engines have base circles that are ground slightly smaller to account for a higher valve lift so you can use the standard length push rods that your engine came with.

If you would like to make your own valve spring compressor like I have I'll be happy to give you the dimensions. If you have basic metal working tools it's easy to do and you'll have fun doing it!

76strokervette

The stock pushrod length is 7.8 inches.If you are using retro hydraulic roller most lifters are plus .300 taller. Comp pn 7702-1 is adjustable from 6.8 to 7.8 inches in length. The springs should center to themselves to the valve when they are re-installed. Just make sure to re-install the springs exactly as they were before removing them.You can also mark the valve stem tip and center the roller contact pattern to valve stem. The method in the video is much quicker.In my engine the length came out at 7.35 inches for the pushrods. There is no reference because of different spring install heights,plus .100 valves etc...
Hope this helps,
Dave

TimAT

You'll need a dial indicator to go with the degree wheel for the cam. I got a 2 inch stroke indicator and set it on zero from the top of the block and the cam on the base circle. The pictures are of my BB but it's the same principle. I had several people tell me that it was unlikely that the numbers would be repeatable too. Mine did. Had a positive stop on the piston and figured out where TDC was exactly.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7D...ew?usp=sharing

Doing a R&R on the springs for checking pushrod length is no deal. Set the head and secure it with a couple of bolts. You can swap the springs with the heads on the bench or on the block. The machine shop I used had a couple of pushrods that were close to what I needed but not exact. They are the same for intake/exhaust so getting them scrambled is not a thing to worry about. With the checking springs installed roll the engine over to get the end of the valve stems marked. Color them with a magic marker and see where the black is rubbed off- you want the mark in the center 1/3 of the stem. Your mark may look a little different than this one- this is a full roller shaft rocker system.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7D...ew?usp=sharing

71VetteLover

You can buy non-stock valves that have longer-than-normal stems which would require shorter push rods to maintain a correct geometry but as long as you're using stock components you'll only need stock push rods. Does the instructions on your new heads recommend longer push rods?

After assembling your engine with the stock push rods spray liquid graphite onto the tips of the stems or use Prussian blue marking paste and turn the engine over a few times. Then remove the rocker arms and see where the "pressure pattern" is on the valve stem tips. It should be the middle half of the tip. If it is you're good to go.

cooper9811

Adam - That video is a great illustration of how to get the maximum lift out of your cam. It an be applied to any engine, not just a "race engine". Scott Foxwell knows his stuff. The method he is describing has also been around for a while.

Other methods for determining geometry exist and work, and have been debated on here before - but the method he describes gets it right.

Having said that, getting geometry perfect means also experimenting with different things like rocker arm manufacturer, valve stem length, etc - variations in different manufacturers' hardware can make that hard to execute perfectly.

IMO, the real take-aways should be this:

• Get the smallest sweep pattern possible,
• Make sure it's not too close to the valve stem side. I try to keep it in the middle "half" of the stem tip. Scott's approach is a good place to start

.

On the question of valve lash - it is called lash for hydraulic rollers. Its the point at which the pushrod makes contact with the cup in the top of the lifter and the rocker arm - the easiest way to find it is to wiggle the pushrod up and down while tightening the nuts on the rocker stud until the wiggling just stops. If you practice it a few times and you will get the feel for it.

76Strokervette and TimAT also provided good info to supplement the video.

NewbVetteGuy

Let me clarify my question, because although I'm getting lots of good info, I'm not getting what I need to move forward.


In order to go through the process in the video to figure out what push-rod length that I need to purchase for my engine, I need to know the ROUGH length range so that I can purchase the adjustable pushrod length checker; which of the following pushrod length checkers should someone buy for an SBC with hydraulic roller lifters, 1.6RRs, and a total intake valve lift of 0.600"?

10" - 11.17" http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...80684/10002/-1

11"- 12.17" http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...80685/10002/-1

6"-7.17" http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...80680/10002/-1

7" - 8.17" http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...80681/10002/-1

8" - 9.17" http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...80682/10002/-1

9" - 10.17" http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...80683/10002/-1




Adam

rklessdriver

You should use this one.

http://www.jegs.com/i/COMP-Cams/249/7702-1/10002/-1

It is a better product than the JEGs brand ones you have listed.
Will

cv67

get checker spring make it easy dont always need a 1.6 either imo overrated
if you pull your existing springs off you just reinstall them theres no trick to setting them back up.

NewbVetteGuy

I don't understand; how do I know that I've reinstalled the springs back in their original location? -Just use a magic marker to mark around the top before removing the retainer and spring and then put it back in the same place?


I already own the 1.6 ratio RRs; the "meat" of the airflow in the Profiler 195cc heads hits at 0.600" of valve lift and the 1.6 ratio RRs paired with my cam's lobes results in an intake valve lift of exactly 0.600", so it was a no-brainer for me.


Adam

NewbVetteGuy

Update:

The Jegs' site says that the stock SBC push rod length is 7.8" long (does this sound correct?); Jegs also says that 7.3" long is often used with retrofit cams & lifters (I'm assuming that the lifters are longer and therefore you need a shorter length push rod). -Does all this sound right?


The CompCams adjustable pushrod checker has a range of 6.8"-7.8"; the Jegs adjustable pushrod checker has a range of 7" - 8.17", which seems very likely to be the range that I'll be looking at, if the above information is correct.


Right now, this seems to be the right option for me; anyone disagree? http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...80681/10002/-1



Adam