Well, the scary day is finally coming where I need to pull the trigger and give Holley all my money.

I'm looking to add a sequential multiport Holley HP EFI system to my FIRST Fuel injection intake, 195cc Profiler heads, and Mike Jones aggressive hydraulic roller cam.


I THINK this is what I will need from Holley to make everything work, but as always getting some feedback from CF makes me feel better:

1. HP EFI Controller w TPI / HolleyStealth Ram Harness and Bosch O2 sensor (Part # 550-601)

2. Small Block Chevy Crank Trigger Kit 60-2/58x wheel (Part # 556-110)

3. Universal Coil OnPlug /Near Plug Harness (558-307)

4. Holley LCD TouchScreen (553-108)



I've already got the LS Truck Coils D581 including the coil mini/extension harness & Bosch 4 injectors. And the fuel system and regulator is all separate.


I'm really not happy at all about the price (For almost $1,600 after the 20% off Christmas sale the ECU and harness doesn't even come with the LCD), but the FAST EZ-EFI 2.0 option requires building adapters for almost every component of a TPI-style system and adding CNP support with the FAST setup gets really expensive really quickly. Holley should really do like Edelbrock and just include a $10 Bluetooth module and let tablets or Apple CarPlay / Android Auto apps act as the LCD touch screen, but it is what it is.

I'm at just over $2,100 without the fuel system, but it's a toy and it's exactly what I want, so "buy once, cry once", I guess...



Adam

 

Have you considered the money for new pulleys and/or fabricating spacers for accessories to match the new distance of the crank pulley?

-Stroke

 

No I have not. The crank trigger wheel comes with a spacer for the crank and water pump pulley, at least.

What do said spacers look like? Are they really a big deal? I was thinking I could just use a bunch of off-the-shelf, 1/8" thick washers and be good.... No?

I saw someone simply weld a crank trigger wheel to the outside of the crank pulley- that seemed like a great solution but you'd have to get it just absolutely PERFECTLY centered or you'd have horrible vibrations.

Adam

 

I do not know specifically what length spacer you would need. I've never installed a crank trigger, but it's on my list of maybe's. When I looked into it, I remember needing spacers for all accessories match new positions. Hope this helps you complete your list of "things needed" before you start. And yeah, welding it just seems like a no-go for my abilities.

-Stroke

 

What type of throttle body are you using? How are you getting the 1X cam signal for the full sequential injector timing?

 

Don't forget the cam-sync. Even with the crank trigger you'll need a cam sync to tell the ECU whether the engine's on the compression or exhaust stroke.

I'm using the EFI Connection cam sync distributor, but lots of people modify their existing distributor and add a hall effect sensor

 

You don't need the LCD screen, and considering what it costs I would skip it. Just use a laptop for configuration instead. There are nothing the LCD screen does that the laptop can't.

 

The FIRST Fuel Injection manifold comes with it's own throttle body; it is being milled down at a slight angle by the MFGR to fit the C3 hood.


I'm also looking to use the EFI Connection 1x cam signal; for $125, it's impossible to beat it for the value.

Are you using the EFI connection 1x converted Vortec distributor with a Holley EFI? (I have an open question with them on whether it's supported, but I'm 80% sure it is.)


Adam

 

Maybe consider using Holley Dual Sync distributor. You get both cam and crank signal from one device, you can delete the 58 tooth reluctor, sensor and bracket. You can order it with a blank distributor cap for use with CNP.

Make sure the cal on the throttle body IAC and TPS is good for the Holley ECU. Also, you'll need a 0-5V water temp, and MAP sensor. Holley sells all this. If you get an extra 0-5V Holley sensor, you can use it for oil pressure and read this on the laptop or LCD screen.

 

Does the holley feature set support saving multiple tunes and switching between them with the touchscreen?

I'd love to have a cool weather vs. hot weather tune. Or a pump gas vs. race gas tune; if I can switch back and forth between them using the touch screen that would be worth it, IMHO.

Adam

 

I know, but I honestly prefer the 58x solution, except for the requirement to space the pulleys...


I don't understand the comment on the IAC / TPS... can you explain in more detail?


Adam

 

Cool/hot weather tune is automatic. There's a intake air temp sensor and a correction table in the ECU.

Race gas tune I guess you mean more aggressive timing advance. You could make such a tune and upload it when you fill up with high octane fuel. Whether you do that on the handheld or a laptop makes no difference.

Personally after running EFI for 15 years I have yet to have more than one tune at a time.

 

Yes. I'm using the EFI Connection cam-sync with the Holley HP ECU. I'm also using the same 60-2 crank trigger (but for a big block) and the D581 coils.

I believe you will have to use the laptop to setup the ignition since it is a custom setting. But it's very easy to configure, just set the cam sensor type to single pulse and digital falling (or rising).

 

In theory, the 58 tooth reluctor has better resolution than the dual sync setup, but I doubt you would see any difference on a dyno. You do have to be mindful of setting reluctor wheel concentricity, should be no more than .010 max. This takes some doing, but no problem for a machinist.

There is also a risk of noise with the long crank sensor cable back to the ECU, even with a Hall effect sensor.

The Dual Sync is plug and play with the Holley ECU. For a SBC, this is the way to go.

Most EFI new installs have some issues related to either idle, or idle ramp down settings. The self learning algorithms don’t work here, they need to be manually set. Just be careful using non-Holley throttle bodies with the Holley ECU, the calibration for the TPS ( throttle position sensor) and the IAC (idle air controller) needs to be compatible with the ECU. These outputs are pretty much universal between manufacturers, so it should be OK, but you won’t know until you hook it up.

 

Like Zwede said, you don't need separate cold and hot weather tunes as the ECU will use the intake air temp and correction table to do it automatically. The ECU will also adapt to altitude and barometric pressure changes. It uses the MAP sensor as a baro sensor for this.

The only difference in a race gas tune and a pump gas tune would be timing. Depending on your engine's actual octane needs, there might not be any power to gain using race fuel. I've done dyno testing where race fuel gained nothing even with timing swings on 10.5 engines. A knock sensor might be a good idea for those times you accidentally get poor quality gas.

Mike

 

I'd like to see pics of your progress when it's convenient.
I have a FIRST TPI installed in my 69' Coupe and I'm in the process of getting the tune dialed in-
However, I went a different route with using a 12200411 GM PCM and I am tuning it with EFI Live.

Odd that Ken is machining your TB for use on a C3.
Mine had no machining done as far as I know and the TB isn't an issue. Perhaps I got lucky?
I'd like to compare notes when it all comes together.
Elm

 

There's a website with a guy who installed a FIRST into an 80 or 82 and he had to have the top of the TB milled down to clear the hood; Ken recommended it, so I just went with it.


I should've just gone with an LS ECM but I'm a sucker for tech so I went the Holley route.

Adam

 

These have long runners, which is good for the street, but how much can the runners flow?

 

It's pricey...but I saw this display at PRI. Pretty cool. It's like the Racepac displays folks use in race cars and custom dashes. It does it all.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/553-106


The Holley crank trigger wheel is very thin. I've got one on mine. I also have a Jesel Belt drive which gets cozy with a short water pump. I had to make spacers for the pump and then space out the PS pump with washers. Alternator bracket was easy to modify spacer. Then I used spacers on crank and water pump pulleys. It was all very easy.

You'll have it a LOT easier just dealing with the wheel alone...it's only about an 1/8th" thick.

JIM

 

The runners are huge compared to the factory TPI runners so it should flow pretty well on most 350s-
With this type of intake design, you shouldn't be looking at high RPM potential anyway and I suspect the flow limit will kick in between 5500-6000 RPM on your typical 350.

With my 409 SBC, I had my builder port the intake (base, runners and plenum) to better handle the larger displacement.
I suspect my limit will be about 5500, which is perfect for my application.
I don't intend on spinning this thing above 5500 anyway-
I'm looking for the crazy low-end torque!