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Sequential Multiport Holley EFI Conversion, Crank Trigger, CNP: Double-Check

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Old Dec 21, 2017 | 11:04 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by NewbVetteGuy
There's a website with a guy who installed a FIRST into an 80 or 82 and he had to have the top of the TB milled down to clear the hood; Ken recommended it, so I just went with it.


I should've just gone with an LS ECM but I'm a sucker for tech so I went the Holley route.

Adam
Yeah, I've seen that web-site.
I believe the 82's hoods were lower towards the nose than the earlier C3 'cowl induction' style hoods but having the extra room isn't a bad idea regardless.

My biggest challenge now is fabricating an air-box. I have an 82' core support that has the 'dip' in the middle but I'm still on the fence if I want to tear everything apart to install it or to just try my luck with the stock core support first (will I get enough air)?
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Old Dec 23, 2017 | 10:11 AM
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From: St. Charles Mo
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Originally Posted by zwede
Cool/hot weather tune is automatic. There's a intake air temp sensor and a correction table in the ECU.

Race gas tune I guess you mean more aggressive timing advance. You could make such a tune and upload it when you fill up with high octane fuel. Whether you do that on the handheld or a laptop makes no difference.

Personally after running EFI for 15 years I have yet to have more than one tune at a time.
Zwede, Knowing you, you probably are already on top of this but, for the others, Holley has implemented an "Advanced ICF" capability in their version 4 software that allows multiple tune configurations based on any number of input criteria. This would allow one to implement a tune change with something as simple as a flip of a switch. A very powerful capability that puts Holley above all the rest. IMHO

See section 3.0 of the Holley EFI V4 Software Overview

Bullshark
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Old Dec 23, 2017 | 11:20 AM
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Default 541ci Aluminum DART BB

Last year I put an Aluminum 541ci DART BB in my 69 vert with the design criteria that is had to fit under its factory stock L-88 hood. It utilized the Holley Dominator EFI 60-2 crank sense, FireStorm cam sense distributor with coil near plug, Super Victor intake modified for multiport injectors and the FAST throttle body. Fits perfect.





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Old Dec 23, 2017 | 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bullshark
Last year I put an Aluminum 541ci DART BB in my 69 vert...
Can always count on you to come up with interesting engine builds. Very nice!

And yes, the 'Advanced ICF' of the Holley V4 software is powerful. I haven't used it much yet, but I did set up a table that increases minimum IAC position depending on coolant temp. This way when the engine is cold the rpm drops slowly to idle with clutch in instead of falling like a rock.

Last edited by zwede; Dec 23, 2017 at 12:11 PM.
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Old Dec 23, 2017 | 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ezobens
The runners are huge compared to the factory TPI runners so it should flow pretty well on most 350s-
With this type of intake design, you shouldn't be looking at high RPM potential anyway and I suspect the flow limit will kick in between 5500-6000 RPM on your typical 350.

With my 409 SBC, I had my builder port the intake (base, runners and plenum) to better handle the larger displacement.
I suspect my limit will be about 5500, which is perfect for my application.
I don't intend on spinning this thing above 5500 anyway-
I'm looking for the crazy low-end torque!

The FIRST intake is in another universe compared to the GM TPI; the intake runners are 14.25" + the 5" of my Profiler heads= 19.25" total length from the plenum to runner spot to the intake valve compared to the 22" of the GM TPI.

It has a 1.75" inside diameter (which also affects the intake ram wave tuning)- that's a 2.4" CSA!!! (It can be opened up to 1.85" ID)

The FIRST intake was flowed on Joe Sherman's flowbench and flowed 301 CFM untouched on the weak runner. It also has a 750 CFM throttle body; you can upgrade to a 950cfm throttlebody.


I've modeled the FIRST intake in PipeMax and it spit out an ideal harmonic tuned length of 18.96" for the 2nd wave on a 350 for 6,000 RPM so the runners are only 0.29" too long to put the peak @ 6,000, assuming the cam and exhaust are also setup to generate an HP peak of 6,000 RPM. I think Pipemax found that the intake length is perfect for a 350 @ 5,850 RPM.

A 383 w 6" rods @ 6,000 RPM wants the FIRST with the 1.75" ID runners to be 18.35" long; again opening up the ID moves the tuned RPM upwards; I am pretty sure a 1.85" ID FIRST could hit a 2nd wave tuned length of 6,000 RPM or slightly over.

My aggressive 228 @ 0.050" roller cam with 1.6 rockers should generate an HP peak of between 5,800 & 5,900 RPM on a 350, too.


I also know when you're trying to tune a multi-step exhaust header, your tuned RPM range is the average between the tuned RPM of the different diameters, after adjusting for the % of the total length of each section (meaning that you are changing the tuned RPM of a header upward in RPM when you add a 2nd step with a larger diameter); I add this because my FIRST is being opened up to a Felpro 1206 gasket size about 1" into the intake runner and if intake runner tuning behaves the same as exhaust runners, it should buy me a tiny bit more RPM / make the intake perform like one slightly shorter. (I'd love to see the future version of my engine peak @ 6,000 RPM as a 383 and make as much torque as possible doing it.) (My goal is at least 440hp and as much torque and fuel economy as possible at that power level.)

A professional engine builder (RCS) currently offers a 383 crate motor with a small-ish roller cam and a FIRST intake with 460HP and 520 ft lbs torque. Again, this might LOOK like a TPI intake.

1989GTATransAm on the ThirdGen forums has siamesed his and done a "max effort" build and made 420 RWHP @ 6,350 RPM @ 417 ft lbs on a 368 SBC--- REAR wheel HP. The MFGR has been talking about offering a siamesed runner option / upgrade for a much more LS-like intake runner length that would cash in some of that torque for more HP, too.



The intake isn't a problem even untouched for 450hp.

Adam
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Old Dec 23, 2017 | 05:05 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ezobens
My biggest challenge now is fabricating an air-box. I have an 82' core support that has the 'dip' in the middle but I'm still on the fence if I want to tear everything apart to install it or to just try my luck with the stock core support first (will I get enough air)?
Yea, I'm NOT looking forward to that challenge... I'm hoping you solve it before I get there. ;-)


Adam
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Old Dec 23, 2017 | 05:10 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Bullshark
It utilized the Holley Dominator EFI 60-2 crank sense, FireStorm cam sense distributor with coil near plug....
The Mallory FireStorm is only available as a Dual Sync distributor and then you just don't utilize the crank trigger signal? Or is there a single sync FireStorm option?

Why did you go with the FireStorm vs. a Vortec 1X for cam sync? (The Vortec seems way cheaper so I have to ask.)


Adam
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Old Dec 23, 2017 | 06:09 PM
  #28  
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From: St. Charles Mo
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Originally Posted by NewbVetteGuy
The Mallory FireStorm is only available as a Dual Sync distributor and then you just don't utilize the crank trigger signal? Or is there a single sync FireStorm option?

Why did you go with the FireStorm vs. a Vortec 1X for cam sync? (The Vortec seems way cheaper so I have to ask.)


Adam
Yes, I am only utilizing it for cam sync. Already hade it on the shelf from a previous potential application.
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Old Dec 26, 2017 | 04:03 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Bullshark
Yes, I am only utilizing it for cam sync. Already hade it on the shelf from a previous potential application.
Totally makes sense. I was testing my own knowledge with that question; thanks for the confirmation.


Adam
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