Deck clearance
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
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From: League City Tx
[QUOTE=Vortecpro;1596177508]
**** I haven't been outran on the street by anything yet...damn sure nothing NA.... I did have a 613 rwhp ZR1 nip me at the stripes when my fuel pump took a ****....same thing with the 700 rwhp supercharged 5.0 I posted the videos of, but even he couldn't pass me until I let out.
That won't be happening now.....new fuel system and my **** is on kill...
Not saying there is not a TON of faster cars around here then my junk, because there is....but they haven't got me yet...
As quench doesn't add a bit of power the deck clearance/quench isn't important. Spend some time in an automotive machine shop and you'll quickly find modern engines with their 4 valves per cylinder and HEMI's don't have any quench and they'll run circles around our C3's. There was a time in which engine builders believed quench increased the burning speed but that was proven wrong 50 years ago when Mopar re-introduced their HEMI.[/QUOTE
I sure get a kick out of you.........can you say "fountain of misinformation"?
Personally I doubt theres any NA production block street drivers on here that run circles around Alans NA production build.
I sure get a kick out of you.........can you say "fountain of misinformation"?
Personally I doubt theres any NA production block street drivers on here that run circles around Alans NA production build.
**** I haven't been outran on the street by anything yet...damn sure nothing NA.... I did have a 613 rwhp ZR1 nip me at the stripes when my fuel pump took a ****....same thing with the 700 rwhp supercharged 5.0 I posted the videos of, but even he couldn't pass me until I let out.
That won't be happening now.....new fuel system and my **** is on kill...
Not saying there is not a TON of faster cars around here then my junk, because there is....but they haven't got me yet...
Last edited by ajrothm; Dec 14, 2017 at 06:46 PM.
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You always have to measure piston to valve clearance. This really has more to do with the camshaft you are running(valve events), then zero decking the block. Basically, you have to check EVERYTHING. A 20cc dome is not THAT tall, and with depending on the cam, I doubt you'll have P to V problems.
There is a LOT more science to engine building then just ordering parts from a catalog and slapping it together. Lots of critical machine work, blue printing and dialing in to make it all work. You are really at the mercy of your local machine shop/builder if you are doing it yourself.
For all of the costs incurred when you really get into doing a real build (like you are now, not just a refreshen of a stock motor), I always recommend people to go to VortecPro performance for BBCs.... You simply can not build one that makes that kind of power, with that kind of quality and proven performance, for that cheap.
Talk to your machine shop, get some ball park pricing on machine work, assembly, then tally up your parts list etc... You will be in for a surprise when all the details add up...
There is a LOT more science to engine building then just ordering parts from a catalog and slapping it together. Lots of critical machine work, blue printing and dialing in to make it all work. You are really at the mercy of your local machine shop/builder if you are doing it yourself.
For all of the costs incurred when you really get into doing a real build (like you are now, not just a refreshen of a stock motor), I always recommend people to go to VortecPro performance for BBCs.... You simply can not build one that makes that kind of power, with that kind of quality and proven performance, for that cheap.
Talk to your machine shop, get some ball park pricing on machine work, assembly, then tally up your parts list etc... You will be in for a surprise when all the details add up...
To be honest this more of a fun bonding experience for me and my dad to build together or I would definitely get a vortecpro build👍
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2015
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From: SW Florida.
NTO=TBTR? now, a quicky explanation of quench or squish. the piston is coming up compressing the mixture. there is this flat surface on top of the piston that corresponds with a flat surface on the bottom of the head. as those 2 surfaces nearly meet, they squish the fuel-air mixture that is between them and blow it sideways across the combustion chamber causing great turbulence that enhances mixture burn. keep in mind, the plug fired about 30 degrees sooner so the mixture is already starting to burn. now, Muzzy's question about pistons hitting valves. most likely not. the 781 is the same combustion chamber as virtually all open chambered big blocks. the closed chamber heads and the L29 gen 6 head, yes you have to make sure of clearances. i am not saying checking is unnecessary, but if a piston maker can't make an open chambered piston that works with an open chambered head, he needs to go sing in bars or something.
Last edited by derekderek; Dec 14, 2017 at 08:12 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
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From: League City Tx
Got ya.
Just continue to do your research, study up before you start buying stuff....Look at the big picture of how you intend to use the car.
You jumped the shark with this project so....may as well go all out.
Even the most mild 496 will make 575-600hp with the correct combo. Its a lot of fun on the street.
Mine made 657hp, has been in my car for about 8 years, 24k miles....It is every bit as driveable as a stock LS5. Absolutely no compromises in driveability, and it even gets stock LS5 gas mileage...
I've driven it cross country twice, made over eighty mid 10 second 1/4 mile passes and done more street racing with it then I should admit.
You really just can not beat a big cube motor for power, driveability and reliability. You're gonna love it.
Last edited by ajrothm; Dec 14, 2017 at 09:16 PM.
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From: SW Florida.
What are you planning to run for induction on this engine? Carb and mech fuel pump or efi? Cuz if efi, you might wanna consider vortec's idea and look for a Gen 6 block. Since all Gen 6's are 4 bolt, but have no mech fuel pump mount. They are also cheap and easy to find. 96-00 trucks.
Last edited by derekderek; Dec 14, 2017 at 10:23 PM.
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I've always gotten a lot of excellent information on the forum. When it came to building my 496 I searched and found a well know speed/machine shop and talked with them after doing my research here. I made a friend with the owner of LJ,s speed and machine in Napa, CA. John has been producing high performance engines for everything on wheels for over fifty years. I'm confident he is helping to build a strong running and dependable motor. My advise is to take what you learn here and find a good speed/machine shop near you and have them help you set up your motor. John has helped me with all the little things that go into a quality build, like knowing what cam gear is needed or a special oil pump rod etc... LJs has helped me out on price matching as well. If he can meet any price I can find a part for online and still make a profit, I order it through him. It's paying him for the advice and help I receive.
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What are you planning to run for induction on this engine? Carb and mech fuel pump or efi? Cuz if efi, you might wanna consider vortec's idea and look for a Gen 6 block. Since all Gen 6's are 4 bolt, but have no mech fuel pump mount. They are also cheap and easy to find. 96-00 trucks.
I’d love to put a holley dominator but it’s a quarter inch taller than a dp.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Gladstone MO
C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
I have an 850 on a very old Weiand dual plane manifold on top of a 496. I'm running 295/40 tires and can make smoke about any time I want to. That said, if I ran across a deal or someone that has one they're not using, a single plane and a Dominator carb would be fun.
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Race Director
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From: SW Florida.
Dom is more of a full throttle piece. strip or hi perf boat with bigger inches than 496. I remember when I was new to offshoreonly, they were talking cam profiles and said a certain grind wasn't good on such a small motor. talking about a 454... speaking of which, what about starting with a 502 block?
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Certainly a Dominator carb is a hard core piece....but it can be made very streetable. They even make a 2 circuit version with PV's now...that helps a lot! I ran my homebuilt 1050 on my 427 and my 540 and it worked fine. Never fouled a plug, instant response etc.
I also ran a Holley Dominator EFI on it with a 4500 style throttle body. Worked great also. I still use the same EFI except different TB/Intake for the turbo combo. I don't remember exact measurements..but don't remember it being an issue. You can use 4150 style base which is fine. Or you can use someone else's TB...seems like FAST might be a little shorter? Or mill the intake/select a different one.
Or keep it simple since you've already gone for the cubes. Just wait until some folks start telling you all you need is a 600 CFM carb to go with the 489!!
Pre-turbo days pics...
JIM
I also ran a Holley Dominator EFI on it with a 4500 style throttle body. Worked great also. I still use the same EFI except different TB/Intake for the turbo combo. I don't remember exact measurements..but don't remember it being an issue. You can use 4150 style base which is fine. Or you can use someone else's TB...seems like FAST might be a little shorter? Or mill the intake/select a different one.
Or keep it simple since you've already gone for the cubes. Just wait until some folks start telling you all you need is a 600 CFM carb to go with the 489!!
Pre-turbo days pics...
JIM
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Certainly a Dominator carb is a hard core piece....but it can be made very streetable. They even make a 2 circuit version with PV's now...that helps a lot! I ran my homebuilt 1050 on my 427 and my 540 and it worked fine. Never fouled a plug, instant response etc.
I also ran a Holley Dominator EFI on it with a 4500 style throttle body. Worked great also. I still use the same EFI except different TB/Intake for the turbo combo. I don't remember exact measurements..but don't remember it being an issue. You can use 4150 style base which is fine. Or you can use someone else's TB...seems like FAST might be a little shorter? Or mill the intake/select a different one.
Or keep it simple since you've already gone for the cubes. Just wait until some folks start telling you all you need is a 600 CFM carb to go with the 489!!
Pre-turbo days pics...
JIM
I also ran a Holley Dominator EFI on it with a 4500 style throttle body. Worked great also. I still use the same EFI except different TB/Intake for the turbo combo. I don't remember exact measurements..but don't remember it being an issue. You can use 4150 style base which is fine. Or you can use someone else's TB...seems like FAST might be a little shorter? Or mill the intake/select a different one.
Or keep it simple since you've already gone for the cubes. Just wait until some folks start telling you all you need is a 600 CFM carb to go with the 489!!
Pre-turbo days pics...
JIM
Jim so will a rpm Airgap with a dominator and a drop down aircleaner fit under an l88 hood?
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AJROTHM would know best. What about using the L88 air box...does that help? Filter is in the hood....
Is there a difference in the 4500 base and a 4150 style? I know there are some shorter ones out there.
JIM
Is there a difference in the 4500 base and a 4150 style? I know there are some shorter ones out there.
JIM
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they also make the standard holley up to 1050 cfm. i have one downstairs in pieces i may build a big enough engine for someday. and yes the 4500 takes a bigger base.
Last edited by derekderek; Dec 15, 2017 at 10:57 AM.
Le Mans Master
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From: League City Tx
They don't make an RPM Air gap with a 4500 flange...(dominator).... Besides that, you don't need a dominator for less then 700 hp....Making it fit, air cleaner clearance etc....way more hassle then you need.
Just get you a nice Holley HP1000 (4150 flange)..... It will be plenty for 700hp...
Me and Jim have a friend that had a Vortecpro 496 that made 765hp with a HP1000 on a Victor Jr intake.
If you are running an L88 hood, the RPM air gap will fit, but you must run the 2" drop base LT1/L88 style repro air cleaner, 3" element, 1 carb gasket...and it will still be very close to the hood. Anything more then that, and forget about it... I eventually went to a 4" high rise L88 hood so I could run a 4" element and a 1" carb spacer. That helps keep the air cleaner lid from sitting only 5/8" off of the top of the carb throat....(big restriction).
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Mine drives fine and when I mat the pedal it goes past 3500 RPM in about a nano-second. THAT's fun!
JIM
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[QUOTE=ajrothm;1596186654]They don't make an RPM Air gap with a 4500 flange...(dominator).... Besides that, you don't need a dominator for less then 700 hp....Making it fit, air cleaner clearance etc....way more hassle then you need.
Just get you a nice Holley HP1000 (4150 flange)..... It will be plenty for 700hp...
Me and Jim have a friend that had a Vortecpro 496 that made 765hp with a HP1000 on a Victor Jr intake.
If you are running an L88 hood, the RPM air gap will fit, but you must run the 2" drop base LT1/L88 style repro air cleaner, 3" element, 1 carb gasket...and it will still be very close to the hood. Anything more then that, and forget about it... I eventually went to a 4" high rise L88 hood so I could run a 4" element and a 1" carb spacer. That helps keep the air cleaner lid from sitting only 5/8" off of the top of the carb throat....(big restriction).[/QUOT
Alan
It was 773.9 HP please don't rob me. Thanks
I have a question to the OP: How would you set the deck height with a Scat crank?
Just get you a nice Holley HP1000 (4150 flange)..... It will be plenty for 700hp...
Me and Jim have a friend that had a Vortecpro 496 that made 765hp with a HP1000 on a Victor Jr intake.
If you are running an L88 hood, the RPM air gap will fit, but you must run the 2" drop base LT1/L88 style repro air cleaner, 3" element, 1 carb gasket...and it will still be very close to the hood. Anything more then that, and forget about it... I eventually went to a 4" high rise L88 hood so I could run a 4" element and a 1" carb spacer. That helps keep the air cleaner lid from sitting only 5/8" off of the top of the carb throat....(big restriction).[/QUOT
Alan
It was 773.9 HP please don't rob me. Thanks
I have a question to the OP: How would you set the deck height with a Scat crank?
Last edited by Vortecpro; Dec 15, 2017 at 08:17 PM.
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[QUOTE=Vortecpro;1596188186]
They don't make an RPM Air gap with a 4500 flange...(dominator).... Besides that, you don't need a dominator for less then 700 hp....Making it fit, air cleaner clearance etc....way more hassle then you need.
Just get you a nice Holley HP1000 (4150 flange)..... It will be plenty for 700hp...
Me and Jim have a friend that had a Vortecpro 496 that made 765hp with a HP1000 on a Victor Jr intake.
If you are running an L88 hood, the RPM air gap will fit, but you must run the 2" drop base LT1/L88 style repro air cleaner, 3" element, 1 carb gasket...and it will still be very close to the hood. Anything more then that, and forget about it... I eventually went to a 4" high rise L88 hood so I could run a 4" element and a 1" carb spacer. That helps keep the air cleaner lid from sitting only 5/8" off of the top of the carb throat....(big restriction).[/QUOT
Alan
It was 773.9 HP please don't rob me. Thanks
I have a question to the OP: How would you set the deck height with a Scat crank?
Just get you a nice Holley HP1000 (4150 flange)..... It will be plenty for 700hp...
Me and Jim have a friend that had a Vortecpro 496 that made 765hp with a HP1000 on a Victor Jr intake.
If you are running an L88 hood, the RPM air gap will fit, but you must run the 2" drop base LT1/L88 style repro air cleaner, 3" element, 1 carb gasket...and it will still be very close to the hood. Anything more then that, and forget about it... I eventually went to a 4" high rise L88 hood so I could run a 4" element and a 1" carb spacer. That helps keep the air cleaner lid from sitting only 5/8" off of the top of the carb throat....(big restriction).[/QUOT
Alan
It was 773.9 HP please don't rob me. Thanks
I have a question to the OP: How would you set the deck height with a Scat crank?
773? That’s pretty impressive and to answer your question... I have no idea😊
Melting Slicks
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From: Spring Park MN
So NTO, where is the downside?
Mike