305 heads on a 350?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 587
Likes: 49
From: Belgium
305 heads on a 350?
Hi guys!
Took the valve covers of my 350 goodwrench crate today. Its supposed to be a 350 with less than 10k miles anyway http://smclassiccars.com/chevrolet/138973-1979-silver-anniversary-edition-corvette-priced-to-move.html
The head casting number is 14014416 ( OR 14g1448 OR b) but im guessing its the first one as thats the only one I could find online.
im guessing that this goodwrench crate never came with those heads? Are they good heads?
The block casting n° is 10066036 so it has to be 350 right?
Are cams stamped on sbc's? On the engines I've worked on before the cam was always stamped at the timing gear end. Im planing on changing the timing gears anyway as I've heard theyre nylon, and a replacement set only costs 20$. Would be Nice to figure out what cam it is too then, the engine has me clueless.
Took the valve covers of my 350 goodwrench crate today. Its supposed to be a 350 with less than 10k miles anyway http://smclassiccars.com/chevrolet/138973-1979-silver-anniversary-edition-corvette-priced-to-move.html
The head casting number is 14014416 ( OR 14g1448 OR b) but im guessing its the first one as thats the only one I could find online.
im guessing that this goodwrench crate never came with those heads? Are they good heads?
The block casting n° is 10066036 so it has to be 350 right?
Are cams stamped on sbc's? On the engines I've worked on before the cam was always stamped at the timing gear end. Im planing on changing the timing gears anyway as I've heard theyre nylon, and a replacement set only costs 20$. Would be Nice to figure out what cam it is too then, the engine has me clueless.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,624
Likes: 431
From: Dale City VA
The block is from one of the Mexican cast/built GM Crate engines.
The heads are from a 305HO.
Looks like someone put those heads on a GMPP 290 crate in an attempt to gain some compression. Which will work fine at lower power levels... above about 350HP or so the small runner and valves will become a big restriction.
If it's an aftermarket cam it should have some identifying marks engraved or stamped on the nose under the cam timing gear. The stock cam will just have a SN for the core stamped on the rear face.
Will
The heads are from a 305HO.
Looks like someone put those heads on a GMPP 290 crate in an attempt to gain some compression. Which will work fine at lower power levels... above about 350HP or so the small runner and valves will become a big restriction.
If it's an aftermarket cam it should have some identifying marks engraved or stamped on the nose under the cam timing gear. The stock cam will just have a SN for the core stamped on the rear face.
Will
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 587
Likes: 49
From: Belgium
Cheers!
Guess I'll find out what cam it is soon then
Any ideas on the possible power gain of those heads? I mean, if it had 350 I would be very glad, even with 250 I wouldve been glad, considering its a L48 1979...
Guess I'll find out what cam it is soon then
Any ideas on the possible power gain of those heads? I mean, if it had 350 I would be very glad, even with 250 I wouldve been glad, considering its a L48 1979...
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,624
Likes: 431
From: Dale City VA
It is very tough to guess because you are basically trading airflow for compression.... althou those heads flow about as well as the stock smoggers that come on GMPP 290 Crates. Without cam change all it would do is pick up the mid range TQ and make the engine feel more responsive.
Back in the mid 1990s we expirimented with those 305HO heads on limited oval track engines.... unmolested 041, 461, 462, 186 double hump small chamber factory high performance cyl heads were becoming difficult and expensive to get for those builds.... those engine made low 400 hp range back then, we equalled the power using the 305 HO castings but we had to cheat them up a lot more than the double humps and they would not make power to the same RPM.... we had bowl cut and acid ported them so thin that they would crack very easily if run hot. Luckily the production Vortec heads came about and we made more power cheaper.
My advice to you would be scrap the 305 heads, buy something else with more potential.
Will
Back in the mid 1990s we expirimented with those 305HO heads on limited oval track engines.... unmolested 041, 461, 462, 186 double hump small chamber factory high performance cyl heads were becoming difficult and expensive to get for those builds.... those engine made low 400 hp range back then, we equalled the power using the 305 HO castings but we had to cheat them up a lot more than the double humps and they would not make power to the same RPM.... we had bowl cut and acid ported them so thin that they would crack very easily if run hot. Luckily the production Vortec heads came about and we made more power cheaper.
My advice to you would be scrap the 305 heads, buy something else with more potential.
Will
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,810
From: Cool Northern Michigan
As the story goes, you take the drivers side cyl head and chain it to the aft of your pontoon boat. Then you take the passenger side head and chain it to the bow of the boat.
(unless you live in Austrailia, then its reversed)
Whole lot better stuff out there for sale.
(unless you live in Austrailia, then its reversed)
Whole lot better stuff out there for sale.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Feb 14, 2018 at 04:31 PM.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 587
Likes: 49
From: Belgium
Better get a freight container to ship Them to Belgium though 😅
i bought this corvette thinking it had just a stock l48,so anything over that is a win. Mind, there isnt a lot of competition around here. Mostly youngsters in corsa's and MK3 golfs.
Though, are there any stock heads to look out for? Vortecs probably,but need a new intake with those too iirc, wich I dont know if it fits under a C3 Hood. And no means to test, my front clip is sitting next tot the car atm
i bought this corvette thinking it had just a stock l48,so anything over that is a win. Mind, there isnt a lot of competition around here. Mostly youngsters in corsa's and MK3 golfs.
Though, are there any stock heads to look out for? Vortecs probably,but need a new intake with those too iirc, wich I dont know if it fits under a C3 Hood. And no means to test, my front clip is sitting next tot the car atm
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,810
From: Cool Northern Michigan
I don't know your budget and if you did find anything decent on EBay or CraigsList they would not get involved with shpg to Europe.
What is Summits and Jegs policy on foreign shpg? Likely cost an arm & a leg. I just hate to see you sink a lot of money into antique performing heads. For example:
Valve grinding, new guides, new seals, springs, retainers, splitlocks, a clean-up surface shave, would run hundreds & hundreds of $$$$. Can buy new heads for under $7 US bills.
What is Summits and Jegs policy on foreign shpg? Likely cost an arm & a leg. I just hate to see you sink a lot of money into antique performing heads. For example:
Valve grinding, new guides, new seals, springs, retainers, splitlocks, a clean-up surface shave, would run hundreds & hundreds of $$$$. Can buy new heads for under $7 US bills.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Feb 14, 2018 at 07:27 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,346
Likes: 160
From: new iberia la
The block is from one of the Mexican cast/built GM Crate engines.
The heads are from a 305HO.
Looks like someone put those heads on a GMPP 290 crate in an attempt to gain some compression. Which will work fine at lower power levels... above about 350HP or so the small runner and valves will become a big restriction.
If it's an aftermarket cam it should have some identifying marks engraved or stamped on the nose under the cam timing gear. The stock cam will just have a SN for the core stamped on the rear face.
Will
The heads are from a 305HO.
Looks like someone put those heads on a GMPP 290 crate in an attempt to gain some compression. Which will work fine at lower power levels... above about 350HP or so the small runner and valves will become a big restriction.
If it's an aftermarket cam it should have some identifying marks engraved or stamped on the nose under the cam timing gear. The stock cam will just have a SN for the core stamped on the rear face.
Will
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Every 2027 Corvette Engine Explained
Joe Kucinski
Designer Imagines A Corvette That Looks More Like a Corvette Than the Corvette
Verdad Gallardo
10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 587
Likes: 49
From: Belgium
I don't know your budget and if you did find anything decent on EBay or CraigsList they would not get involved with shpg to Europe.
What is Summits and Jegs policy on foreign shpg? Likely cost an arm & a leg. I just hate to see you sink a lot of money into antique performing heads. For example:
Valve grinding, new guides, new seals, springs, retainers, splitlocks, a clean-up surface shave, would run hundreds & hundreds of $$$$. Can buy new heads for under $7 US bills.
What is Summits and Jegs policy on foreign shpg? Likely cost an arm & a leg. I just hate to see you sink a lot of money into antique performing heads. For example:
Valve grinding, new guides, new seals, springs, retainers, splitlocks, a clean-up surface shave, would run hundreds & hundreds of $$$$. Can buy new heads for under $7 US bills.
Shipping from summit isnt too Bad, around 100$ + 30% import costs. If you place 1 big order its fine
you know the drill, you have to say why you say that too. Explain it to the poor European guy who could only dream of living in a Country where you can buy engines over the counter :p
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,346
Likes: 160
From: new iberia la
Quote
you know the drill, you have to say why you say that too. Explain it to the poor European guy who could only dream of living in a Country where you can buy engines over the counter :p[/QUOTE]
OK, Target Master was a Mexican cast block with sub par components, usually unequally sized journals on cranks. some were recycled Failure engines or their components . Assembled by low skilled $2/hr labor , originally Designed for cheapo replacement crate engines for fleet service trucks . just a cheap fix to get more service out of them.. low compression, low power , low reliability... ever take one apart? if so, you know what I m saying.. and as to why European guys cant get GOOD QUALITY engines... ITS CALL FREIGHT ... Vendors SHIP any engine you want.. to any country in Europe.. BTW, I lived in France and was born in GERMANY.. just sayin
you know the drill, you have to say why you say that too. Explain it to the poor European guy who could only dream of living in a Country where you can buy engines over the counter :p[/QUOTE]
OK, Target Master was a Mexican cast block with sub par components, usually unequally sized journals on cranks. some were recycled Failure engines or their components . Assembled by low skilled $2/hr labor , originally Designed for cheapo replacement crate engines for fleet service trucks . just a cheap fix to get more service out of them.. low compression, low power , low reliability... ever take one apart? if so, you know what I m saying.. and as to why European guys cant get GOOD QUALITY engines... ITS CALL FREIGHT ... Vendors SHIP any engine you want.. to any country in Europe.. BTW, I lived in France and was born in GERMANY.. just sayin
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 587
Likes: 49
From: Belgium
i hate it when people get arrogant when they didnt Read properly. Over the counter. Freight shipping isnt over the counter.
Take summits 1600 euro base engine. Calculated shipping : 1.093,48 euro without tax. You see where I'm going with this.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,082
Likes: 3,399
From: SW Florida.
ok, the 416 head is apparently 58 cc chambers and 1.84 valves. this 290 crate engine probably came with 72 cc chamber heads. so you are probably 2 points better than stock, I would guess approaching 10:1. rule of thumg is you pick up 4% in power for every point of compression from 7 to 9. and 2% a point from 9 on up. meanwhile you lose a bit at high rpm's from the smaller ports and valves. so it'll probably be a better street driver and suffer a bit if you are trying to get under 13.8 ET. they are paid for and work. run 'em... BTW, there is a lot of info on those heads on the thirdgen site.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,346
Likes: 160
From: new iberia la
OK, Target Master was a Mexican cast block with sub par components, usually unequally sized journals on cranks. some were recycled Failure engines or their components . Assembled by low skilled $2/hr labor , originally Designed for cheapo replacement crate engines for fleet service trucks . just a cheap fix to get more service out of them.. low compression, low power , low reliability... ever take one apart? if so, you know what I m saying.. and as to why European guys cant get GOOD QUALITY engines... ITS CALL FREIGHT ... Vendors SHIP any engine you want.. to any country in Europe.. BTW, I lived in France and was born in GERMANY.. just sayin
Take summits 1600 euro base engine. Calculated shipping : 1.093,48 euro without tax. You see where I'm going with this.[/QUOTE]
First.. I hate when people assume because hes in Europe that hes poor .. not cool... first a C3 like his gets 10-12 mpg, - gas there is about $8 /gal for 87 octane.. premium is ridiculous. .car insurance for a V8 350ci car there is astronomical. . If he bought a gas guzzling Classic like this, I doubt hes poor..
2nd...in my orig post I NEVER RECOMENDED HE SHIP OR BUY ANYTHING..try reading it AGAIN.. { I hate when arrogant people don t read properly}... I simply stated I recall TARGET MASTER.. YOU INSISTED I defend that they are junk and then for some reason why he cant get new engines. .. I explained .. and suggested freight if he chose to buy. you don t like the explanation, that's fine..I don t care. . I have shipped Dana 44 Differentials and TH400 trans to friends in Switzerland .. it did not cause bankruptcy .. have a nice day
Last edited by fishslayer143; Feb 18, 2018 at 08:07 AM. Reason: spilled my coffee
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,082
Likes: 3,399
From: SW Florida.
Okay you have the timing cover off. Now you can sort of degree to cam. Count the teeth on the timing gear. That number divided by 36 is the number of degrees per tooth. Camshaft rotation. Double that you get crank degrees. So you get your little $30 Harbor Freight Vise grip dial indicator stand. Stick it on top of the rocker. Fat Bubba pointer without the timing cover on it. And rotate the engine and watch for valve movement and you get a pretty good idea of your lift and your degrees of duration. It'll more than likely tell you whether it's a stock cam or some performance cam. https://m.harborfreight.com/clamping...tor-93051.html
Last edited by derekderek; Mar 4, 2018 at 09:24 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,810
From: Cool Northern Michigan
Ok. You can put the sprocket back on with one bolt loosely to use as leverage to slowly & carefully pull the cam. Has to be numbers on the other end.
Looks like you dropped the pan just enough to get the timing cover off. When you install the cover, hit that pan with some Permatex Right Stuff and you should be good to go if you are not pulling the pan. Its a tricky fit but do-able.
Looks like you dropped the pan just enough to get the timing cover off. When you install the cover, hit that pan with some Permatex Right Stuff and you should be good to go if you are not pulling the pan. Its a tricky fit but do-able.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Mar 4, 2018 at 09:30 AM.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 587
Likes: 49
From: Belgium
Cheers!
Willl need to take the intake off too probably to take the lifters out? This engine keeps surprising me! Will be chevy orange soon too.
Was going to take it out to paint, but can't get my lift in front of it. Parked it too close to the garage wall, and it's on jackstands without springs and suspension arms atm so it's hard to move
I will be taking the pan off anyway, just to be able to properly paint it
I do wonder what gasket I need though, it's an LM1 engine, don't know if they use the same gaskets as the L48/L82, thought those used a paper gasket between the block and pan?
Willl need to take the intake off too probably to take the lifters out? This engine keeps surprising me! Will be chevy orange soon too.
Was going to take it out to paint, but can't get my lift in front of it. Parked it too close to the garage wall, and it's on jackstands without springs and suspension arms atm so it's hard to move
I will be taking the pan off anyway, just to be able to properly paint it
I do wonder what gasket I need though, it's an LM1 engine, don't know if they use the same gaskets as the L48/L82, thought those used a paper gasket between the block and pan?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,810
From: Cool Northern Michigan
Correct on the intake removal. I misunderstood and thought that was already done.
If you are saving the cam, lifters, pushrods, make up a small board with 32 holes marked so the parts go back exactly as you found them.
Is the fuelpump out? Cam will not budge until the pump pushrod has dropped down.
Using the reattached cam sprocket will help gain leverage to remove the cam. Go slow. You do not want to nick, dislodge the cam bearings.
And not familiar with the LM-1 oil pan. But if you are making a wish list for Summit, I would recommend the 4 piece FelPro cork / steel, around $17 + your 30% tax. If you order the one pc it may not fit correctly and you will be out the money.
And, consider a Oil Pan Stud Kit. ( Best invention since sliced bread) Whole lot easier to install pan & gasket when laying on your back.
If you are saving the cam, lifters, pushrods, make up a small board with 32 holes marked so the parts go back exactly as you found them.
Is the fuelpump out? Cam will not budge until the pump pushrod has dropped down.
Using the reattached cam sprocket will help gain leverage to remove the cam. Go slow. You do not want to nick, dislodge the cam bearings.
And not familiar with the LM-1 oil pan. But if you are making a wish list for Summit, I would recommend the 4 piece FelPro cork / steel, around $17 + your 30% tax. If you order the one pc it may not fit correctly and you will be out the money.
And, consider a Oil Pan Stud Kit. ( Best invention since sliced bread) Whole lot easier to install pan & gasket when laying on your back.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Mar 4, 2018 at 04:22 PM.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 587
Likes: 49
From: Belgium
Cheers! Added them to my (ever growing.. ) cart!
Cam is out, appears to be a CWC cam with an unknown number ( 242396 ) won't be checking it too much, can you spot the problem?
) cart! Cam is out, appears to be a CWC cam with an unknown number ( 242396 ) won't be checking it too much, can you spot the problem?
Last edited by Dusky; Mar 5, 2018 at 09:52 AM.