Stuck brake caliper
04-22-2018, 05:12 PM
#1
6th Gear
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Stuck brake caliper
Hi,
My 71 350 sbc is pulling hard to the left when braking. So after reading a lot of forum posts i decided to change the rubber brake hoses to new Russel steal braided hoses. I also installed Russel speed bleeders at the same time.
But this didn't solve the issue, as no brake fluid came out of the bleeder valve when opened on the right front caliper.
Brake fluid will only squirt out when I manually decompres the brake pistons in one side of the caliper or Press the brake pedal.
When I press the brake pistons in one side of the caliper, then the pistons on the other side come out. Is it supposed to work like this? This is with the bleeder valve open (and the Master cylinder lid off). A small amount of brake fluid squirts out of the bleeder when the pistons are pressed.
The steal brakeline that connects to the brake hose was dripping with brakefluid when the hose was installed, so the brakeline until the caliper seems to be alright.
Any ideas of what to do? Is there something stucked in the caliper? Would it might help to remove the caliper and blow some compressed in through the caliper? Or what would you suggest?
Thanks!
DJS
My 71 350 sbc is pulling hard to the left when braking. So after reading a lot of forum posts i decided to change the rubber brake hoses to new Russel steal braided hoses. I also installed Russel speed bleeders at the same time.
But this didn't solve the issue, as no brake fluid came out of the bleeder valve when opened on the right front caliper.
Brake fluid will only squirt out when I manually decompres the brake pistons in one side of the caliper or Press the brake pedal.
When I press the brake pistons in one side of the caliper, then the pistons on the other side come out. Is it supposed to work like this? This is with the bleeder valve open (and the Master cylinder lid off). A small amount of brake fluid squirts out of the bleeder when the pistons are pressed.
The steal brakeline that connects to the brake hose was dripping with brakefluid when the hose was installed, so the brakeline until the caliper seems to be alright.
Any ideas of what to do? Is there something stucked in the caliper? Would it might help to remove the caliper and blow some compressed in through the caliper? Or what would you suggest?
Thanks!
DJS
04-22-2018, 05:25 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
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Pulling left = Rt side not doing anything. But you knew that.
By any chance was the Rt front brake hose sqeezed down with a clamp during your ordeal? Damaged internally?
By any chance was the Rt front brake hose sqeezed down with a clamp during your ordeal? Damaged internally?
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; 04-22-2018 at 05:28 PM.
04-22-2018, 06:22 PM
#3
You probably WON'T get fluid out of the bleeder unless you press the peddle.
YES, it is normal for another cylinder to move outward when you press one in.
Install the caliper, install pads, make sure all your lines are tight, then bleed the brakes - at least that caliper. Have someone push the pedal and hold it down, you open the bleeder then close the bleeder, have them let up to draw another dose of fluid, and repeat. If you changed the hoses it may take some bleeding before you get good fluid flow and no air. Top off the master as you go.
My guess is that you didn't get the PS completely bled, so it is pulling to the left.
Also, make sure you blast your rotor and pads with brake cleaner before it goes together. If it's already together with pads, spray down from the top in the area where pads meet the rotor. If you had a leaky caliper previously and saturated a pad, it may have a hard time grabbing and will cause a pull.
YES, it is normal for another cylinder to move outward when you press one in.
Install the caliper, install pads, make sure all your lines are tight, then bleed the brakes - at least that caliper. Have someone push the pedal and hold it down, you open the bleeder then close the bleeder, have them let up to draw another dose of fluid, and repeat. If you changed the hoses it may take some bleeding before you get good fluid flow and no air. Top off the master as you go.
My guess is that you didn't get the PS completely bled, so it is pulling to the left.
Also, make sure you blast your rotor and pads with brake cleaner before it goes together. If it's already together with pads, spray down from the top in the area where pads meet the rotor. If you had a leaky caliper previously and saturated a pad, it may have a hard time grabbing and will cause a pull.
Last edited by JoeMinnesota; 04-22-2018 at 08:35 PM.
04-22-2018, 07:05 PM
#4
Race Director
You probably WON'T get fluid out of the bleeader unless you press the peddle.
YES, it is normal for another cylinder to move outward when you press one in.
Install the caliper, install pads, make sure all your lines are tight, then bleed the brakes - at least that caliper. Have someone push the pedal and hold it down, you open the bleeder then close the bleeder, have them let up to draw another dose of fluid, and repeat. If you changed the hoses it may take some bleeding before you get good fluid flow and no air. Top off the master as you go.
My guess is that you didn't get the PS completely bled, so it is pulling to the left.
Also, make sure you blast your rotor and pads with brake cleaner before it goes together. F it's already together with pads, spray down from the top in the area where pads meet the rotor. If you had a leaky caliper previously and saturated a pad, it may have a hard time grabbing and will cause a pull.
YES, it is normal for another cylinder to move outward when you press one in.
Install the caliper, install pads, make sure all your lines are tight, then bleed the brakes - at least that caliper. Have someone push the pedal and hold it down, you open the bleeder then close the bleeder, have them let up to draw another dose of fluid, and repeat. If you changed the hoses it may take some bleeding before you get good fluid flow and no air. Top off the master as you go.
My guess is that you didn't get the PS completely bled, so it is pulling to the left.
Also, make sure you blast your rotor and pads with brake cleaner before it goes together. F it's already together with pads, spray down from the top in the area where pads meet the rotor. If you had a leaky caliper previously and saturated a pad, it may have a hard time grabbing and will cause a pull.
DUB
04-22-2018, 08:14 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
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C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
You won't get any fluid out until you press the pedal because of the speed bleeders.
When you press on one side of the pistons and the other pops out is normal
When you press on one side of the pistons and the other pops out is normal
Last edited by The Punisher; 04-22-2018 at 08:15 PM.
04-23-2018, 06:00 PM
#7
It's basic hydraulics - YES - if you press on one piston - that will put pressure throughout the system, and cause other pistons to move - but the other replies already told you that. While many brakes systems will lose fluid when you open the bleeder valve - the overall pressure is a fraction of a psi - so any restriction at all will cause no flow - and the speed bleeders are designed to not flow until you get a few psi "motivating" the fluid to flow (so they don't let air back in).
If it's been a while since the system was flushed - bleed all four wheels - one at a time till the fluid comes out clear from each bleeder valve. Standard practice is to do the furthest wheel from the Master cylinder first - but I never found that to be very critical....
Then - go out and test drive the car - leave plenty of room, and use the brakes gently at first - then once you're sure they're good - start to use them more aggressively. Put some heat into them - and see how they feel.
If the brakes now feel good - you're done - if not (meaning the car continues to pull under braking) you may have a sticky piston / buggered seal in a caliper. You can either rebuild the calipers or swap them for rebuilt calipers. While not absolutely necessary - most people rebuild calipers in pairs - so if you do a front left - do the front right as well.
GOOD LUCK !!!
If it's been a while since the system was flushed - bleed all four wheels - one at a time till the fluid comes out clear from each bleeder valve. Standard practice is to do the furthest wheel from the Master cylinder first - but I never found that to be very critical....
Then - go out and test drive the car - leave plenty of room, and use the brakes gently at first - then once you're sure they're good - start to use them more aggressively. Put some heat into them - and see how they feel.
If the brakes now feel good - you're done - if not (meaning the car continues to pull under braking) you may have a sticky piston / buggered seal in a caliper. You can either rebuild the calipers or swap them for rebuilt calipers. While not absolutely necessary - most people rebuild calipers in pairs - so if you do a front left - do the front right as well.
GOOD LUCK !!!
04-23-2018, 06:24 PM
#8
Race Director
I AGREE...if the condition of the brake fluid in your master cylinder reservoir is looking like really strong tea or coffee. NOW is the time to get the fluid changed out to fresh fluid.
ALSO...IF your brake fluid is black like coffee and oyu can not see the bottom of your reservoir....if you take Q-Tip and swab the bottom of your master cylinder and you bring back some black sludge.
What I do is either slowly put Bounty towels in there and soak up the fluid and get it all out and get the inside of the reservoir clean. I DO NOT spray any brake clean in the reservoir. If I feel I need it..I spray it on the Bounty towel and do controlled wipes. On some cars the sludge is so excessive I am WATCHFUL of the holes in the bottom of the master cylinder reservoir and I make sure I so not smear this sludge into them.
And do not be surprised that if you go back in a month after a lot of driving and check your reservoir..and see that the fluid is all dirty again. That is because down in the master cylinder valving that sludge has collected due to not being serviced on a regular basis. And there is nothing you can do about that other than remove the master cylinder and pull it apart and clean it thoroughly.
So if you ask..Why should I worry about it?" Well...becasue the point is to get the system the best you can....isn't it.
HAVE NO FEAR that this is going to cause for any brake bleeding issues because it CANNOT due to there is an will be fluid IN the valving of the master cylinder...so NO AIR is going to get in there.
I then fill up the reservoir and bleed the system.
DUB
ALSO...IF your brake fluid is black like coffee and oyu can not see the bottom of your reservoir....if you take Q-Tip and swab the bottom of your master cylinder and you bring back some black sludge.
What I do is either slowly put Bounty towels in there and soak up the fluid and get it all out and get the inside of the reservoir clean. I DO NOT spray any brake clean in the reservoir. If I feel I need it..I spray it on the Bounty towel and do controlled wipes. On some cars the sludge is so excessive I am WATCHFUL of the holes in the bottom of the master cylinder reservoir and I make sure I so not smear this sludge into them.
And do not be surprised that if you go back in a month after a lot of driving and check your reservoir..and see that the fluid is all dirty again. That is because down in the master cylinder valving that sludge has collected due to not being serviced on a regular basis. And there is nothing you can do about that other than remove the master cylinder and pull it apart and clean it thoroughly.
So if you ask..Why should I worry about it?" Well...becasue the point is to get the system the best you can....isn't it.
HAVE NO FEAR that this is going to cause for any brake bleeding issues because it CANNOT due to there is an will be fluid IN the valving of the master cylinder...so NO AIR is going to get in there.
I then fill up the reservoir and bleed the system.
DUB
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Classic Muscle (07-29-2018)
04-23-2018, 07:24 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
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If you go that route, you will need a centering tool for the Proportioning Valve or it will "trip" like a circuit breaker and the brake warning light will come on. Click on my profile and check my brake photo album to see the tool ($15).
04-24-2018, 09:39 AM
#10
Race Director
But I can say...I had never needed to use it before I got it nor needed to use it since I have got it and all of the brake jobs that I have bled out that had the brake warning light on ...the light went off when the system was correctly bled. And ion those brake systems that the brake light was not on..it did not come on.
But I got the tool due to it being inexpensive and does make sense if needed and the brake light will not seem to go off and the system is bled perfectly.
DUB
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CEc3Tom (10-29-2022)
04-24-2018, 04:42 PM
#11
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I AGREE...if the condition of the brake fluid in your master cylinder reservoir is looking like really strong tea or coffee. NOW is the time to get the fluid changed out to fresh fluid.
ALSO...IF your brake fluid is black like coffee and oyu can not see the bottom of your reservoir....if you take Q-Tip and swab the bottom of your master cylinder and you bring back some black sludge.
What I do is either slowly put Bounty towels in there and soak up the fluid and get it all out and get the inside of the reservoir clean. I DO NOT spray any brake clean in the reservoir. If I feel I need it..I spray it on the Bounty towel and do controlled wipes. On some cars the sludge is so excessive I am WATCHFUL of the holes in the bottom of the master cylinder reservoir and I make sure I so not smear this sludge into them.
And do not be surprised that if you go back in a month after a lot of driving and check your reservoir..and see that the fluid is all dirty again. That is because down in the master cylinder valving that sludge has collected due to not being serviced on a regular basis. And there is nothing you can do about that other than remove the master cylinder and pull it apart and clean it thoroughly.
So if you ask..Why should I worry about it?" Well...becasue the point is to get the system the best you can....isn't it.
HAVE NO FEAR that this is going to cause for any brake bleeding issues because it CANNOT due to there is an will be fluid IN the valving of the master cylinder...so NO AIR is going to get in there.
I then fill up the reservoir and bleed the system.
DUB
ALSO...IF your brake fluid is black like coffee and oyu can not see the bottom of your reservoir....if you take Q-Tip and swab the bottom of your master cylinder and you bring back some black sludge.
What I do is either slowly put Bounty towels in there and soak up the fluid and get it all out and get the inside of the reservoir clean. I DO NOT spray any brake clean in the reservoir. If I feel I need it..I spray it on the Bounty towel and do controlled wipes. On some cars the sludge is so excessive I am WATCHFUL of the holes in the bottom of the master cylinder reservoir and I make sure I so not smear this sludge into them.
And do not be surprised that if you go back in a month after a lot of driving and check your reservoir..and see that the fluid is all dirty again. That is because down in the master cylinder valving that sludge has collected due to not being serviced on a regular basis. And there is nothing you can do about that other than remove the master cylinder and pull it apart and clean it thoroughly.
So if you ask..Why should I worry about it?" Well...becasue the point is to get the system the best you can....isn't it.
HAVE NO FEAR that this is going to cause for any brake bleeding issues because it CANNOT due to there is an will be fluid IN the valving of the master cylinder...so NO AIR is going to get in there.
I then fill up the reservoir and bleed the system.
DUB
But I have bleed the brakes and just need to do a test drive (I had to take care of my daughter, so I didn't have time for the test drive).
Thanks for all the help!
04-24-2018, 05:27 PM
#12
Race Director
What I tell my customers who just spent a lot of money on their brakes.
"When the brake fluid starts to look like tea or bourbon....it is time...when it looks like black coffee...it has gone too long...because if you choose to not service this fluid...then you are the one to blame when it has to come back to me and your fairly fresh bake system is now leaking or has a problem".
In some peoples logic...for me being in business. It is to my financial advantage for them to neglect it so I can make money. But I prefer to let it be know...so when and if a problem occurs due to lack of maintenance on their part. At least I told them.
DUB
"When the brake fluid starts to look like tea or bourbon....it is time...when it looks like black coffee...it has gone too long...because if you choose to not service this fluid...then you are the one to blame when it has to come back to me and your fairly fresh bake system is now leaking or has a problem".
In some peoples logic...for me being in business. It is to my financial advantage for them to neglect it so I can make money. But I prefer to let it be know...so when and if a problem occurs due to lack of maintenance on their part. At least I told them.
DUB
04-24-2018, 06:08 PM
#13
Team Owner
Just to digress, for a moment, the object of the "speed bleeder", is so that one person can bleed the brakes. The bleeder body has a spring loaded "b-b" inside, and the threads of the speed bleeder are coated with a thread sealer, which is supposed to provide an "air tight" seal, between the bleeder and the body of the caliper.
You loosen the bleeder in the caliper, and when you press on the break pedal, the pressure pushes the "B-B" off it's seat, and fluid is forced out the opening in the bleeder. When you release the pedal, A)the spring forces the "b-b" back down, sealing the opening, and B), the thread sealer prevents air from being drawn back into the caliper, between the bleeder's threads and caliper. You do this several times, then tighten the bleeder, and move on to the next wheel. (re-fill the master cylinder, too)
They do work, but my only gripe with them, is that after a few uses, the thread sealer "wears out", for lack of a better term, and no longer seals very well, allowing air to seep back into the caliper. However, I assume that a fresh application of sealer would fix this.
You loosen the bleeder in the caliper, and when you press on the break pedal, the pressure pushes the "B-B" off it's seat, and fluid is forced out the opening in the bleeder. When you release the pedal, A)the spring forces the "b-b" back down, sealing the opening, and B), the thread sealer prevents air from being drawn back into the caliper, between the bleeder's threads and caliper. You do this several times, then tighten the bleeder, and move on to the next wheel. (re-fill the master cylinder, too)
They do work, but my only gripe with them, is that after a few uses, the thread sealer "wears out", for lack of a better term, and no longer seals very well, allowing air to seep back into the caliper. However, I assume that a fresh application of sealer would fix this.
04-24-2018, 06:24 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
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I was under the assumption that Speed Bleeders were for "just bleeding" and not anything permanet. Once you are done bleeding that axle per se, the Speed bleeders were to be removed / replaced by a std bleeder, to be cracked open / bled for the last time. (Thats why they are sold in pairs-axle?) IDK.
I don't believe I would trust a little tiny spring to stay closed when it was suppose to.
I will stick with the old school, sloppy fit, stripped thread, air sucking style.
I don't believe I would trust a little tiny spring to stay closed when it was suppose to.
I will stick with the old school, sloppy fit, stripped thread, air sucking style.
04-24-2018, 06:57 PM
#15
Team Owner
I was under the assumption that Speed Bleeders were for "just bleeding" and not anything permanet. Once you are done bleeding that axle per se, the Speed bleeders were to be removed / replaced by a std bleeder, to be cracked open / bled for the last time. (Thats why they are sold in pairs-axle?) IDK.
I don't believe I would trust a little tiny spring to stay closed when it was supposed to.
I will stick with the old school, sloppy fit, stripped thread, air sucking style.
I don't believe I would trust a little tiny spring to stay closed when it was supposed to.
I will stick with the old school, sloppy fit, stripped thread, air sucking style.
04-24-2018, 07:13 PM
#16
Race Director
I know with my luck...if I used them...a small speck of crap would get caught and not allow it to seat correctly...and then I would be chasing my tail.
And YES..I am aware that I could attach a hose and have it go into a bottle of brake fluid and get all of the air out of teh hose so no air can be drawn back into the system....but I am not wasting my time on that stuff. No need.
I will stick with the original design bleeders and my pressure bleeder.
Seems like a great idea that many people use and appreciate.
DUB
And YES..I am aware that I could attach a hose and have it go into a bottle of brake fluid and get all of the air out of teh hose so no air can be drawn back into the system....but I am not wasting my time on that stuff. No need.
I will stick with the original design bleeders and my pressure bleeder.
Seems like a great idea that many people use and appreciate.
DUB
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HeadsU.P. (04-24-2018)
04-25-2018, 05:18 AM
#17
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I bought 6 Russel speed bleeders, so I had enough for all 4 calipers. So far I have done the front brakes and when I installed the speed bleeder in the left front caliper, nothing happened when I pressed the pedal.
So i remembered that I had read in other posts that they could be stuck and it could help to blow compressed air through it before installing. But nothing happend. So I took one of the other speed bleeders and tried to blow air through it with my mouth and it was fine. After I installed the working speed bleeder it worked like a charm.
But despite of speed bleeders I can't get gravity bleeding to work. But stepping on the brake pedal works. So right now I don't see the big difference in normal bleeders and speed bleeders.
I have to see if the speed bleeders get leaky and allow air to enter the calipers after some bleeds. I am keeping the old ones, just to be safe.
Hopefully my neglect of changing the brakefluid will not end up in even more brake problems.
So i remembered that I had read in other posts that they could be stuck and it could help to blow compressed air through it before installing. But nothing happend. So I took one of the other speed bleeders and tried to blow air through it with my mouth and it was fine. After I installed the working speed bleeder it worked like a charm.
But despite of speed bleeders I can't get gravity bleeding to work. But stepping on the brake pedal works. So right now I don't see the big difference in normal bleeders and speed bleeders.
I have to see if the speed bleeders get leaky and allow air to enter the calipers after some bleeds. I am keeping the old ones, just to be safe.
Hopefully my neglect of changing the brakefluid will not end up in even more brake problems.
04-25-2018, 06:16 AM
#18
Le Mans Master
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Obviously the Speed Bleeders are useless for gravity bleeding. The little spring in there makes sure of that. I was all set to buy six of them, then read some bad reviews. So, I purchased a Vacuum Pump tool and a used Motive pressure bleeder instead.
Each one has its advantages. If you are bleeding the entire system from the master rearwards, then pressurize the entire system. If you are only doing one caliper, then the vacuum method is easier.
What people pay for those Speed Bleeders, could have gotten them a vacuum pump tool.
Each one has its advantages. If you are bleeding the entire system from the master rearwards, then pressurize the entire system. If you are only doing one caliper, then the vacuum method is easier.
What people pay for those Speed Bleeders, could have gotten them a vacuum pump tool.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; 04-25-2018 at 06:17 AM.
04-25-2018, 06:02 PM
#19
Race Director
I agree that using the vacuum tool for bleeding out a caliper is a good way to go...BUT...
Heck...for me ...when I get inside my own head (which can be quite scary) I stop and go get the pressure bleeder and install the attachment on the master cylinder and force the fluid through. Some habits for me are hard to break.
And form what I gather...I guess you got your brakes to where you want them and they are all bled out???
DUB
Heck...for me ...when I get inside my own head (which can be quite scary) I stop and go get the pressure bleeder and install the attachment on the master cylinder and force the fluid through. Some habits for me are hard to break.
And form what I gather...I guess you got your brakes to where you want them and they are all bled out???
DUB