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Allen Headed Header Bolt Question

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Old Jul 28, 2018 | 07:47 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by HeadsU.P.
There were two brothers four score and seven years ago, named Al & Phil They hated the industrial revolution. They hated cars. They hated wood working. So one day they decided to seek revenge for all those that work on machinery, cars and wood so that everyone would suffer in misery, for years to come. They invented the fasteners as we know them today as the Allen and the Phillips.


Steve
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Old Jul 28, 2018 | 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by lars
I like to use the Stage 8 header bolts - they give you the best of both worlds: They have both a 6-point hex, so you can use an open-end wrench in the tight areas, and they have the allen head that you can use where the allen head wrench can get to them. I throw away the locking system parts and just use the dual-design head bolts - they work great!

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/stg-8911/overview/

Lars
Lockers: About the best for guaranteeing a no back-out condition. I like that. Easier than using a drilled head and safety wire anyway.
Thanks for the link Lars.

Steve
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Old Jul 28, 2018 | 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by naramlee
I disagree... I love my allen bolts, I get snap-on 6" extended reach ones that reach all the way through the headers, sorry but 3/8 allens is smaller than a flank drive socket but still hold up to 30lbs/ft, too many issues with regular bolts and I have two bolts you cant get a box-end on them at all cuz they are too close to a primary
Relatively low torque settings for aluminum heads/manifolds is an important consideration.

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Old Jul 28, 2018 | 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by HeadsU.P.
That could be. My allen socket set is 1/2" drive, too big.

Worked on some older machinery yesterday. A bearing cradle had allen bolts. Got my not so trusty allen wrenches out:
Please don't strip-please-don't strip-please don't strip. Bolts came out, whew!

Yeah, I sprinkle AeroKroil on like Holy Water and luck out occasionally too.

Steve
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Old Jul 28, 2018 | 09:02 AM
  #25  
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I'm fortunately living in a city big enough to have large nut and bolt stores and a local Summit Racing

Lars mentioned that stage 8 locking setup. They only work with smaller headers like 1 5/8th

I went to Allen when I moved to 1 3/4th headers. Ive also done completely Allen motors with kits like this

just use anti seize

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Small-Block-Chevy-Stainless-Engine-Bolt-Kit,7101.html?sku=91303840&utm_medium=CS EGoogle&utm_source=CSE&utm_campaign=CSEG OOGLE&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqPDaBRC6ARIsACAf4hDG YALoeYtuEPOeZvGaOtmgnf5p-DIE6A1AE4s82Gs0fgRZ9ymXbmIaAvIaEALw_wcB
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Old Jul 28, 2018 | 09:38 AM
  #26  
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I tried all the trick stuff and kid's stuff over the years up through safety wiring the header bolts. but when it comes down to the very best is studs. That way you never have to worry about cross threading your expensive aluminum heads.

ARP universal header studs with 5/16th hardend black nuts. It is all I use for about the past 15 years.



Just add a dab of red high temp Permatex. Even my ARP head studs are Allen with 12 point cap nuts. In the picture are AFR 210 heads and Hooker supercomp 1 3/4 headers.


Last edited by gkull; Jul 28, 2018 at 09:43 AM.
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Old Jul 28, 2018 | 11:39 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by gkull
Lars mentioned that stage 8 locking setup. They only work with smaller headers like 1 5/8th
That's correct, which is why I don't use the locking hardware - just the dual-purpose head bolts.

And here's why I use the 6-point, small-hex bolts with the added allen head feature:
You guys with small block Chevys have it made. There isn't a tough header bolt to get to on a SBC - it's so easy you can install the bolts with a box wrench, and even use studs. You can install SBC headers blindfolded with minimal effort. On other brands, it's different. I work on all musclecars and engines, and here is what I deal with any time I work on headers. Try to use a 12-point bolt in these locations, where you can't get the box wrench onto the bolt head. Where there is no straight-in access at all to the bolt. Or where the bolt must be accessed through the wheel well opening with a 2-foot extension and an allen tool. Or imagine installing studs on one of these engines... (Bolts shown are the Stage 8 bolts, shortened to fit this application. ONly access to the 3 photo locations shown are with an open-end wrench. Other locations can only be accessed using an allen wrench on a long extension):





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Old Jul 28, 2018 | 06:38 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Cavu2u
Thanks Fred.
I was thinking TORX also for the same reason. But without the versatility of angle-engagement like a ball-end Allen key has, I might be screwed in an instance or two.

Steve
Problem solved

http://bondhus.com/bondhus_products/...-wrenches.html
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Old Jul 28, 2018 | 07:15 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Fredtoo

Indeed it is! Thanks Fred.
We learn something new every day.

Steve
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Old Jul 28, 2018 | 10:26 PM
  #30  
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I just took a box end wrench and ground it to make the ring end thinner....so it would slip on easier
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Old Jul 28, 2018 | 10:49 PM
  #31  
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I use the 1 inch 5/16 ARP studs that was mentioned above. Easy to get to and never back out.
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Old Jul 29, 2018 | 12:11 AM
  #32  
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I have Stage-8 locking bolts on my headers and they have been quite wonderful. If I was to do it today, then I would buy some of these:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-910120

It just looks like an easier mechanism to use for locking. AND I would use anti-seize liberally both on the inside threads and the outside of the header bolt.
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Old Jul 29, 2018 | 07:45 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by carriljc
I have Stage-8 locking bolts on my headers and they have been quite wonderful. If I was to do it today, then I would buy some of these:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-910120

It just looks like an easier mechanism to use for locking. AND I would use anti-seize liberally both on the inside threads and the outside of the header bolt.
Innovative product; that's for sure!

Thanks.
Steve
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Old Jul 29, 2018 | 08:45 AM
  #34  
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I have had allen bolts for 30 years now . Would have to tighten them once in a while when i would hear a ticking sound usually when driving close to a guard rail . Now I just check them once in a while and haven't had any problems .
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Old Jul 29, 2018 | 09:18 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by HeadsU.P.
I do not believe you would be happy with allen header bolts. They require a allen socket which is bigger diameter than what you are using now.
You could look at Summit Racing under fasteners and find ARPs header bolts, with washers 12 point instead of 6 pt in black or stainless. With the smaller headed bolts you will gain clearance and the 12 pt are wonderful for tight spaces. I use nothing but a box-end wrench.

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Old Jul 29, 2018 | 09:35 AM
  #36  
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Since they last like forever; I'd even consider getting them in Stainless Steel.... heck, they last forever and only get torqued to like 25-30 ft-lbs.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p...SABEgKrL_D_BwE
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