Borg Warner T5 conversion feasibility
#21
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Well, Gentlemen... thank you for all your feedback.
I went to see the trans today, and I bought it.
It is from a 1994 V6 Firebird, from what I can gather.
Other details seem to confirm.
#22
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
My slip yoke slides on just fine.
It came with a bellhousing which (V6 Firebird), I assume, cannot be used on a Chevy V8.
I went through all the gears - it felt smooth.
The input shaft has little play and stays clear of the throwout bearing support.
My bellhousing will not bolt up to it.
It came with a bellhousing which (V6 Firebird), I assume, cannot be used on a Chevy V8.
I went through all the gears - it felt smooth.
The input shaft has little play and stays clear of the throwout bearing support.
My bellhousing will not bolt up to it.
#23
Race Director
yes, that has a Ford bellhousing pattern on the front of the transmission case. Now those two adapters I showed you. You need the second one I am fairly sure. You need to measure the diameter of the piece of bolts on the front that covers the input shaft the diameter where it makes to the case it's about three and a half for 4 and change in in diameter you need that exact measurement to make sure that the adapter is the correct one for that transmission. And yes since it's the GM, you do have the right spline count for your drive shaft, which still has to be shortened
a bit.now, the downside. You have a 3.75 to 1 first gear ratio in that transmission. And what are you running something like a 3.35 rear end? it will be barely tolerable with a 3.08 rear end. At that point you're going to have an 11-point 521 final drive first gear ratio. Which is one and a half car links and you're shifting into second. Or you might be pulling out in 2nd gear all the time. That's the problem with these v6 transmissions the gear ratios are too deep. The overdrive's not bad but first gear is just ridiculously low. I would recommend returning it if you can.
a bit.now, the downside. You have a 3.75 to 1 first gear ratio in that transmission. And what are you running something like a 3.35 rear end? it will be barely tolerable with a 3.08 rear end. At that point you're going to have an 11-point 521 final drive first gear ratio. Which is one and a half car links and you're shifting into second. Or you might be pulling out in 2nd gear all the time. That's the problem with these v6 transmissions the gear ratios are too deep. The overdrive's not bad but first gear is just ridiculously low. I would recommend returning it if you can.
#24
Race Director
here's the chart with the identifiers and whether they're world class or not and what the gear ratios are for most of the common t5 transmissions. http://www.britishv8.org/articles/bo...t5-id-tags.htm
#25
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Thanks Derek!
I’ll explore returning this. Indeed, I am not too pleased about this guy’s ability to communicate. #understatement
Hmmm and the input shaft... If I slap an adapter on there, the means it won’t reach the pilot bushing ?
I’ll explore returning this. Indeed, I am not too pleased about this guy’s ability to communicate. #understatement
Hmmm and the input shaft... If I slap an adapter on there, the means it won’t reach the pilot bushing ?
#26
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Hmmmmmm. Another option: swap case ?
#27
Race Director
I believe this input shaft is also a little bit longer so that will work. But you do have that too deep in first gear ratio. Is all kind of places to look for all the parts sizes and all that. Google board t5 input shaft dimensions or something like that and you will find them all. I'm pretty sure with that adapter this like a hundred and $66 it will work like that.
#28
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Hmmmm. As close as I can tell, the T5 has an input shaft that is 0.5 inch longer. You were right !
#29
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
And indeed, that too deep first gear bothers me !
I’ll see if I can go back on Wednesday or Thursday.
I’ll see if I can go back on Wednesday or Thursday.
#30
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
One last question... if I were to pick up an adapter plate... what would this do for the “cant” ? Does that still need to be addressed ?
#31
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Ok, I mailed the guy; I will be going back on Wednesday or Thursday to see if he has others available. #fingerscrossed
I just want to wrap my mind around this trans. I wasn’t expecting this issue from GM. Hopefully I can make this work if there is no choice.
The output shaft wors with my yoke.
The input shaft is a 26 spline and the tip is 19/32. That is the same size is the Munchie’s tip. So, it’ll work with my pilot bushing.
The input shaft apears to be 1/2 inch longer than the Muncie. That seems a little thin for an adapter plate to work. They are an inch, thick, aren’t they.
The adapter plate would get rid of the cant, correct?
The bolt pattern is Ford. Weird.
The shifter is at the rearmost, Chevy position.
It is a WC.
It was canted on the V6 bellhousing.
The first gear is crazy deep.
This feels like 1/2 Ford and 1/2 GM. Frankentrans.
That’s the best I can describe this thing.
I just want to wrap my mind around this trans. I wasn’t expecting this issue from GM. Hopefully I can make this work if there is no choice.
The output shaft wors with my yoke.
The input shaft is a 26 spline and the tip is 19/32. That is the same size is the Munchie’s tip. So, it’ll work with my pilot bushing.
The input shaft apears to be 1/2 inch longer than the Muncie. That seems a little thin for an adapter plate to work. They are an inch, thick, aren’t they.
The adapter plate would get rid of the cant, correct?
The bolt pattern is Ford. Weird.
The shifter is at the rearmost, Chevy position.
It is a WC.
It was canted on the V6 bellhousing.
The first gear is crazy deep.
This feels like 1/2 Ford and 1/2 GM. Frankentrans.
That’s the best I can describe this thing.
#32
Race Director
there ain't no can't. The bellhousing on the 83 to 92 V8 Camaros and Firebirds had the flange angled 18° off to the side. unless you're going to buy one of those bellhousings it's not going to have that slope. and the cases I have are the non world-class type the one you have is a world-class the cases do not interchange and the GM world-class V8 cases are scarce and expensive.
#33
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I see ! Understood !!!!
I also found this: extended pilot bushing !
I tried to measure mine as accurate as I could. My input shaft is between 7.125 and 7.100. I’m guessing I’m good
I also found this: extended pilot bushing !
I tried to measure mine as accurate as I could. My input shaft is between 7.125 and 7.100. I’m guessing I’m good
Last edited by DorianC3; 11-19-2018 at 04:45 PM.
#34
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
So the best thing I can do is go back and see if he has a GM V8 T5: I can reuse my bellhousing and it gets me better gears.
Else, I can make this one work, but first gear is going to be neck-snapping crazy.
Else, I can make this one work, but first gear is going to be neck-snapping crazy.
#35
Race Director
first gear is going to be like a creeper gear in a truck. You could just flip it in the first gear without even stepping on the clutch. I don't think you're going to find very many Camaro and firebird V8 t5 it's not like it's a real common car in Europe. Hell they're hard to find it this country.
#36
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Yes. He said he has five more (shoulda told me that then). I’m hoping that the demand here is so low... maybe one is Chevy V8
Last edited by DorianC3; 11-19-2018 at 05:03 PM.
#37
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Hey Fellas,
So I’m going back tomorrow to the salvage yard. I’m going to try to exchange my trans. They said they had 5 others in stock. (I wish they would have told me this at the time.)
Anyway, ideally we are looking for GM V8 over Ford to be able to reuse my slip yoke and bellhousing, correct?
We are looking for the better first gear as well.
And then of course, we want a WC.
If not available, I run with this one? Or is there another better one (WC) that I might look for ?
Conversely, is there anything I absolutely should stay away from ?
Thanks !
DC3
So I’m going back tomorrow to the salvage yard. I’m going to try to exchange my trans. They said they had 5 others in stock. (I wish they would have told me this at the time.)
Anyway, ideally we are looking for GM V8 over Ford to be able to reuse my slip yoke and bellhousing, correct?
We are looking for the better first gear as well.
And then of course, we want a WC.
If not available, I run with this one? Or is there another better one (WC) that I might look for ?
Conversely, is there anything I absolutely should stay away from ?
Thanks !
DC3
#38
Safety Car
My advise to you is, find a 176 transmission, or similar to a 176 transmission.
It is the best transmission, but also hard to find.
If I was you, then I would take the time needed to find a 176, or "similar/close" to a 176
It took me 1 year to find my 176 transmission 3-4 years ago !
Just my 2 cents.....
It is the best transmission, but also hard to find.
If I was you, then I would take the time needed to find a 176, or "similar/close" to a 176
It took me 1 year to find my 176 transmission 3-4 years ago !
Just my 2 cents.....
#39
Dr. Detroit
Member Since: Mar 2012
Location: New Braunfels Texas
Posts: 9,963
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I wish I would have chimed in yesterday because now you know the V6 trans will not work. You need a T5 and all of the stuff from a 85-92 Camaro.....only stuff that will work.
Jebby
Jebby
#40
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Thanks, Gents.
It’s the nature of our hobby; we learn as we go. I have figured out that the gearing isn’t great but I could make this box work.
Tomorrow we’ll see if we can find a better alternative... if not, we’ll make this one work. I could wait till a better trans comes along but I am just too spoiled, I just need an OD. There’s little point in putting in a clutch kit for the muncie if I plan to swap it out as soon as I can.
It’s the nature of our hobby; we learn as we go. I have figured out that the gearing isn’t great but I could make this box work.
Tomorrow we’ll see if we can find a better alternative... if not, we’ll make this one work. I could wait till a better trans comes along but I am just too spoiled, I just need an OD. There’s little point in putting in a clutch kit for the muncie if I plan to swap it out as soon as I can.