Borg Warner T5 conversion feasibility - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Notices
C3 Tech/Performance V8 Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Basic Tech and Maintenance for the C3 Corvette

Borg Warner T5 conversion feasibility

Old 11-16-2018, 12:15 PM
  #1  
DorianC3
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
DorianC3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2017
Posts: 450
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default Borg Warner T5 conversion feasibility

The T56 project fizzled out. See here: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...atibility.html

I am now exploring other solutions to get an OD. On my Chevelle I converted from a TH350 to a 200-4R. Of course now, I am spoiled.

For context, living overseas, in Belgium, is a challenge. Shipping stuff over is expensive... add 30+40%. Sometimes you have to make do with what you have.

Aaaaanyway I found over here a reasonably priced Borg Warner T5 13-52-065

According to the numbers... it is not a WC, but was behind a 1984 Mustang/Capri 5.0 V8

1: 2.95
2: 1.94
3: 1.34
4: 1.00
5: 0.63

These ratios should work fine behind a 1969 C3.

I realize this is not the strongest release, but it should live behind my underwhelming, vanilla rebuild. I doubt I even have 200 ponies for the moment. TQ, not much more.

One day, I will pull it out and reinforce it.

For now, and considering what I said above:
  1. Is there any screaming reason that I should walk away from this trans?
  2. If no... is there anything I should look out for?
  3. Are there additional parts that I might snag while at the salvage yard? Slip yoke... ???
MTIA,

DC3
DorianC3 is offline  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:01 PM
  #2  
Denpo
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Denpo's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,506
Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts
Default

From the T5 identification page :
Many confused people have found this page attempting to identify their T-5.
A common mistake is to see the 13-52-065-xxx number cast into the side of the case, do a search, and find the britishV8.org website.
That site has a pretty comprehensive list of T-5 ID TAGS. There they look up the ID TAG using the first 7 digits of the casting number
and have mistakenly identified their transmission as being a NON-World Class "1352-065 - Ford 1984 Mustang/Capri 5.0 V8"
You may want to do a little more research on the transmission you want to buy.
I'm among those that did the T5 conversion, once you get the actual model of you transmission I'm sure your questions will be answered.
Good luck!
Denpo is offline  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:12 PM
  #3  
DorianC3
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
DorianC3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2017
Posts: 450
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Indeed ?!? What numbers should I be asking the guys from the salvage yard to properly identify? Itís an hour drive over.

The full number I had was: 13-52Ė065-922.

Last edited by DorianC3; 11-16-2018 at 01:20 PM.
DorianC3 is offline  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:28 PM
  #4  
c3_dk
CF Senior Member
 
c3_dk's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Posts: 3,267
Thanked 224 Times in 190 Posts
Default

I did a T5WC 1352-176 install, and I'm happy.
My advise to you is, take your time, find the right transmission.

The gear ratio for the one you have found, is PERFECT in my mind.
c3_dk is offline  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:41 PM
  #5  
Denpo
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Denpo's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,506
Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DorianC3 View Post
Indeed ?!? What numbers should I be asking the guys from the salvage yard to properly identify? It’s an hour drive over.

The full number I had was: 13-52–065-922.

From the same site :
13-52-065-922* 96+ World Class Ford & GM - With and without the reverse spring anchor
This case is used in Mustangs, Camaros and S-10
So, congratulations, you may have scored a WC T5.
Now, do you know from which car this is from?
You'd probably like it to be from a GM (Camaro Iroc-z), because, while slanted, it has the GM bolt pattern. Ford's are fine too, but you'll need an adapter plate or a custom bell-housing.

Last edited by Denpo; 11-16-2018 at 01:42 PM.
Denpo is offline  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:48 PM
  #6  
Denpo
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Denpo's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,506
Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts
Default

By the way the youtuber EricTheCarGuy did a two part rebuilt video that is just insanely detailed.
While I had a complete rebuild guide video while I redid mine, I wish I'd seen those two also.
Not only the guy tells you how to do it properly, he also goes in length to explain you why.
Denpo is offline  
Old 11-16-2018, 02:08 PM
  #7  
DorianC3
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
DorianC3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2017
Posts: 450
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Denpo View Post
From the same site :

So, congratulations, you may have scored a WC T5.
Now, do you know from which car this is from?
You'd probably like it to be from a GM (Camaro Iroc-z), because, while slanted, it has the GM bolt pattern. Ford's are fine too, but you'll need an adapter plate or a custom bell-housing.
Hmmm. Now this is interesting. Actually all of it is !! Thanks for sharing all this information.

Intestingly a while back I bought some IROC rims off of this guy. I wonder...

Even over here I have Thanksgiving off. Iíll drive over and get a closer look at it.

I take it I should snag the slip yoke as well ?

DorianC3 is offline  
Old 11-16-2018, 02:13 PM
  #8  
derekderek
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2015
Location: Westville NJ
Posts: 3,843
Thanked 482 Times in 450 Posts
Default

non WC ford case? too much effing around. there are lots of correct ratio non wc gm case gm output shaft. with a Ford, you can buy an adapter for the bellhousing to trans for 200 bucks. then you can get a ford front driveshaft nose. but...you n can't get the ford driveshaft piece with the ability to unbolt the u-joint. so you have to do the front u-joint while in the car. the mustang trans shifter position is a bit better. so that tailhousing is nice to have as long as it has a mechanical speedo. also has a level trans mount face. and also matching a ford disk to a gm pressure plate. so it is a bunch of effing around instead of waiting for a GM trans. did you already buy this trans? don't. if you did, I have a case and GM mainshaft for you. OK, Belgium. easy to get T5's. hard to get GM T5's. that trans is less than 200 bucks over here. what do you call reasonable?. this bare case I have and this mainshaft might be small enough to ship to Europe reasonably.

Last edited by derekderek; 11-16-2018 at 02:18 PM.
derekderek is offline  
Old 11-16-2018, 02:22 PM
  #9  
derekderek
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2015
Location: Westville NJ
Posts: 3,843
Thanked 482 Times in 450 Posts
Default

and the people over here who deal with these tranny's say there is no diff in durability between these and WC trany's. not actively shopping the parts but I bought 2 GM nwc units in various states of wear and then found the correct WC trans for cheap..
derekderek is offline  
Old 11-16-2018, 03:04 PM
  #10  
Denpo
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Denpo's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,506
Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DorianC3 View Post


Hmmm. Now this is interesting. Actually all of it is !! Thanks for sharing all this information.

Intestingly a while back I bought some IROC rims off of this guy. I wonder...

Even over here I have Thanksgiving off. Iíll drive over and get a closer look at it.

I take it I should snag the slip yoke as well ?

You're welcome.
Yeah, I'd take the slip yoke while being there.
As a frenchy in Quebec I truly appreciate how lucky I am to be on the right continent for this kind or addiction.
Check here for picture of the transmission support I build for my T5.

Denpo is offline  
Old 11-16-2018, 04:42 PM
  #11  
DorianC3
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
DorianC3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2017
Posts: 450
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default



Originally Posted by Denpo View Post
You're welcome.
Yeah, I'd take the slip yoke while being there.
As a frenchy in Quebec I truly appreciate how lucky I am to be on the right continent for this kind or addiction.
Check here for picture of the transmission support I build for my T5.
Ha. Great thread !!! I like the simplicity of the bracket and how you managed the hydraulic clutch.

At this point the best course of action is to ask them what vehicle this came out of and then to go see it.

Bien ŗ vous


Last edited by DorianC3; 11-16-2018 at 04:42 PM.
DorianC3 is offline  
Old 11-16-2018, 05:43 PM
  #12  
derekderek
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2015
Location: Westville NJ
Posts: 3,843
Thanked 482 Times in 450 Posts
Default

if the tag is correct it came from a ford v8. this would be easiest way to use that trans. and a ford slip yoke with the correct u-joint and a ford 11 inch clutch that fits that spline. AND you need to adapt the pilot bushing. but doable. ford input shaft is a bit longer. the adapter makes up the length diff also. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bellhousing...E1cZ:rk:2:pf:0
derekderek is offline  
Old 11-16-2018, 05:45 PM
  #13  
derekderek
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2015
Location: Westville NJ
Posts: 3,843
Thanked 482 Times in 450 Posts
Default

this one won't work without buying a new input shaft cover. it is a diff diameter at the flange. but it would work for a v6 chevy trans. ratios arent as good though. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bellhousing...DS0j:rk:3:pf:0

Last edited by derekderek; 11-16-2018 at 05:46 PM.
derekderek is offline  
Old 11-17-2018, 03:01 AM
  #14  
DorianC3
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
DorianC3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2017
Posts: 450
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Denpo View Post
You're welcome.
Yeah, I'd take the slip yoke while being there.
As a frenchy in Quebec I truly appreciate how lucky I am to be on the right continent for this kind or addiction.
Check here for picture of the transmission support I build for my T5.
Any chance you know how to say "slip yoke" in French. I have no idea
DorianC3 is offline  
Old 11-17-2018, 04:55 AM
  #15  
DorianC3
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
DorianC3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2017
Posts: 450
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Ok, I will be going up to see these guys on Thursday.

I have found them a little (<cough> very) unreliable when it comes to getting accurate information on the specs of this trans. Clearly I have no choice but to go up there and eyeball it myself. Who knows? This could be the golden ticket.

Knowing the place, I would think it will be from either a Ford or a GM V8; both acceptable. I would also suspect that it will be a later WC model. The most important bit for me other than being a V8 and non S10 model... is the gear stack; it needs to be appropriate for 3.36:1 and have an OD around 0.68. This I can determine using the ID tag... or even by counting revolutions.

I need help understanding this "cant" business.

GM
If I am understanding this correctly, a GM trans can be mated to my muncie bellhousing. However... there will be a cant of 18 degrees (shifter toward driver). That will require an adapting bracket on the crossmember. I will also need to be careful to ensure the elevation is correct so as to avoid driveshaft vibration. The shift lever itself will also need to be adapted. The Z-bar clutch mechanism will work ok. GM clutch kit. Pilot bushing is fine as well. The slip yoke will work with my drive shaft.

Ford
The Ford input shaft is longer. But that is ok, an adapter plate will allow me to mate it with my bellhousing. It will not be canted but still may require some tweaking at the transmission mount. The shift lever may still require an offset. The slip yoke: the Ford one will work with the GM drive shaft? Pilot bushing will need to be adapted. A hybrid clutch kit will need to be assembled. Since I the bellhousing is mine (adapter plate) the Z-bar will work.

(Incidentally, if I go forward with this, I may go hydraulic clutch.)

In both cases the drive shaft may need to be shortened.

Understanding this is important in my determination to take or reject this trans.

BTW, WHY did GM cant their trans?
DorianC3 is offline  
Old 11-17-2018, 05:06 AM
  #16  
DorianC3
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
DorianC3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2017
Posts: 450
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by derekderek View Post
you can get a ford front driveshaft nose. but...you n can't get the ford driveshaft piece with the ability to unbolt the u-joint. so you have to do the front u-joint while in the car.
Sorry - I don't understand this bit...

Originally Posted by derekderek View Post
so that tailhousing is nice to have as long as it has a mechanical speedo. also has a level trans mount face. and also matching a ford disk to a gm pressure plate. so it is a bunch of effing around instead of waiting for a GM trans. did you already buy this trans? don't. if you did, I have a case and GM mainshaft for you. OK, Belgium. easy to get T5's. hard to get GM T5's. that trans is less than 200 bucks over here. what do you call reasonable?. this bare case I have and this mainshaft might be small enough to ship to Europe reasonably.
They want $750 for the trans. It is reasonable in that I really need a deeper first gear and an OD to enjoy this car and this is the extent of the market here... unless I discover more options. Sorry but... I really appreciate the offer however I am confused by what you mean with case and mainshaft. You mean swapping the innards from one case to another all the while changing the mainshaft?
DorianC3 is offline  
Old 11-17-2018, 07:21 AM
  #17  
derekderek
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2015
Location: Westville NJ
Posts: 3,843
Thanked 482 Times in 450 Posts
Default

Yes. That would be assembling the guts onto a GM mainshaft and putting into a GM case. Also a bit of effing around. probably easier to get the adapter and mate the Ford trans to your bellhousing. GM did not cant the transmission. They canted the bellhousing on the 83 to 90 or so V8 Camaros and Firebirds.it is not the transmission case that is different. It is the bellhousing from those cars. And that is why the rear trans mount is crooked like in Denpo's thread. You are not using that bellhousing you don't have to worry about that. But this one if that tag is correct is a Ford case in a Ford tail shaft in a Ford main shaft. now the main shaft requires a slip yoke and no I can't say it in French either. That has the Ford spline count. And they don't make a Ford slip yoke that you can unbolt the drive shaft out of. The way Corvettes are done both ends of the drive shaft have to be disassembled from there yolks in order to remove it from the car. So what you'll have to do is put the drive shaft up in there and then push the Caps into the yoke assembling the u-joint into the drive shaft while it is in the car. PITA but doable. now, you were looking at a launch ratio that is overall first gear ratio in the 9 to 10 to 1 range. And that's the problem with these v6 transmissions. They're deep first gear combined with your rear ratio makes them 11 and 12 to 1 sometimes. And that kind of ratio you pull out of a traffic light and you're hitting second gear before you gone 1 and 1/2 car lengths. I have a v6 trans, in pieces. It's got a 3.5 to one first. Would be 11.75 overall first gear. you currently have a mechanical clutch in a standard 4th gear trends correct? If so, stay with that clutch setup. It's paid for it works it doesn't have to be reengineered. hydraulic clutch requires coming up with an 85 Chevy master cylinder and some kind of slave cylinder stripping the dashboard out all kind of stuff too much effing around. you notice how I use effing around a lot in this. That's because it involves a lot of it. You're going to have to shorten the drive shaft I'm not sure how much I think around three and a half inches.

Last edited by derekderek; 11-17-2018 at 07:32 AM.
derekderek is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to derekderek For This Useful Post:
DorianC3 (11-17-2018)
Old 11-17-2018, 07:36 AM
  #18  
derekderek
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2015
Location: Westville NJ
Posts: 3,843
Thanked 482 Times in 450 Posts
Default

Fourchee coulissante? Or glisser let joug? here is an old thread. this guy made his own adapter plate. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...nsmission.html

Last edited by derekderek; 11-17-2018 at 07:57 AM.
derekderek is offline  
Old 11-18-2018, 09:43 PM
  #19  
Denpo
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Denpo's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,506
Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts
Default

Here you'll find visual reference to tell a WC from a non WC.
If it's a WC you'll get the right ratios.
IIRC the Ford T5 have a slightly shorter 5th (0.8 vs 0.63), but the first is the same.
GM slanted the WC trans so nobody would put a V6 T5 behind a V8 (an break it).
T5 have a bad reputation mainly because the casing is a bit flimsy, tend to twist ever so slightly.
People have been running T5 behind BBC without problem, just don't drop the clutch in first drag race style and you'll be fine.
One option to beef it up is to use an G force case
That's what I did, but the case has to be drilled for the GM holes.
Denpo is offline  
Old 11-19-2018, 07:25 AM
  #20  
derekderek
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2015
Location: Westville NJ
Posts: 3,843
Thanked 482 Times in 450 Posts
Default


Last edited by derekderek; 11-19-2018 at 07:32 AM.
derekderek is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us About Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: