Borg Warner T5 conversion feasibility
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,794
Likes: 430
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Thanks, Gents.
It’s the nature of our hobby; we learn as we go. I have figured out that the gearing isn’t great but I could make this box work.
Tomorrow we’ll see if we can find a better alternative... if not, we’ll make this one work. I could wait till a better trans comes along but I am just too spoiled, I just need an OD. There’s little point in putting in a clutch kit for the muncie if I plan to swap it out as soon as I can.
It’s the nature of our hobby; we learn as we go. I have figured out that the gearing isn’t great but I could make this box work.
Tomorrow we’ll see if we can find a better alternative... if not, we’ll make this one work. I could wait till a better trans comes along but I am just too spoiled, I just need an OD. There’s little point in putting in a clutch kit for the muncie if I plan to swap it out as soon as I can.
Regards from Denmark.
/John
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,352
Likes: 518
Ok, I sleep one more time then I am on my way back to the salvage yard.
So we agree...
look for a GM V8 T5.
If possible a WC
In that case, I can use both my slip yoke and bellhousing.
if I cannot find that, I keep what I have because of the output shaft that works with my slip yoke. An adapter plate plus (If necessary) a bushing extension and I should be fine using my Muncie bellhousing. I’ll learn to live with the super deep first gear.
The advantage of a Ford V8 T5 would be a better gear stack... but I’d still need an adapter plate, a modified pilot bushing, and my slip yoke would no longer work.
So, stay with what I have rather than Ford, correct ?
L4 and S10 T5= forget it.
So we agree...
look for a GM V8 T5.
If possible a WC
In that case, I can use both my slip yoke and bellhousing.
if I cannot find that, I keep what I have because of the output shaft that works with my slip yoke. An adapter plate plus (If necessary) a bushing extension and I should be fine using my Muncie bellhousing. I’ll learn to live with the super deep first gear.
The advantage of a Ford V8 T5 would be a better gear stack... but I’d still need an adapter plate, a modified pilot bushing, and my slip yoke would no longer work.
So, stay with what I have rather than Ford, correct ?
L4 and S10 T5= forget it.
Last edited by DorianC3; Nov 20, 2018 at 04:01 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 970
From: Tennessee/Rhode Island
Yes the WC 176 is the one you want from late 88-92 (?) F body V8 cars. They are hard to come by. I looked for a while myself and gave up.
I look on and off when I can but not an immediate necessity.
If the gangs from the aftermarket 5/6 speeds would price their tranny's reasonably, there would be no need to hunt for the WC T-5's. The last time I looked I was looking at about $3,500, bare minimum for the aftermarket conversions...if I am lucky to hit that price point. More like $4,500 which is ridiculous considiering it cost me about $6K to build the L-82 355 into a 425+ Gross HP engine....
I look on and off when I can but not an immediate necessity.
If the gangs from the aftermarket 5/6 speeds would price their tranny's reasonably, there would be no need to hunt for the WC T-5's. The last time I looked I was looking at about $3,500, bare minimum for the aftermarket conversions...if I am lucky to hit that price point. More like $4,500 which is ridiculous considiering it cost me about $6K to build the L-82 355 into a 425+ Gross HP engine....
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,352
Likes: 518
If the gangs from the aftermarket 5/6 speeds would price their tranny's reasonably, there would be no need to hunt for the WC T-5's. The last time I looked I was looking at about $3,500, bare minimum for the aftermarket conversions...if I am lucky to hit that price point. More like $4,500 which is ridiculous considiering it cost me about $6K to build the L-82 355 into a 425+ Gross HP engine....
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,095
Likes: 4,026
From: New Braunfels Texas
Ok, I sleep one more time then I am on my way back to the salvage yard.
So we agree...
look for a GM V8 T5.
If possible a WC
In that case, I can use both my slip yoke and bellhousing.
if I cannot find that, I keep what I have because of the output shaft that works with my slip yoke. An adapter plate plus (If necessary) a bushing extension and I should be fine using my Muncie bellhousing. I’ll learn to live with the super deep first gear.
The advantage of a Ford V8 T5 would be a better gear stack... but I’d still need an adapter plate, a modified pilot bushing, and my slip yoke would no longer work.
So, stay with what I have rather than Ford, correct ?
L4 and S10 T5= forget it.
So we agree...
look for a GM V8 T5.
If possible a WC
In that case, I can use both my slip yoke and bellhousing.
if I cannot find that, I keep what I have because of the output shaft that works with my slip yoke. An adapter plate plus (If necessary) a bushing extension and I should be fine using my Muncie bellhousing. I’ll learn to live with the super deep first gear.
The advantage of a Ford V8 T5 would be a better gear stack... but I’d still need an adapter plate, a modified pilot bushing, and my slip yoke would no longer work.
So, stay with what I have rather than Ford, correct ?
L4 and S10 T5= forget it.
Jebby
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,082
Likes: 3,399
From: SW Florida.
But he would be in the same too deep first gear area that he is with the current trans. and you would still need to Camaro tail housing because the S10 shifter is farther north by about 8 to 10 in.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,082
Likes: 3,399
From: SW Florida.
Personally, I think you're better off with the Ford trans with the 2.95 first gear instead of the 3.75 first gear v6 trans. yeah you have to mess around with the drive shaft also but at least you've got five gears you can use. Another option would be looking for us 3.08 rear end. It's still going to be a little deep in first but not as bad as what you have now. Course then it's another $7-800 worth of messing around.
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,095
Likes: 4,026
From: New Braunfels Texas
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Race Director
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,082
Likes: 3,399
From: SW Florida.
Universal joints are universal joints. You can put the Ford slip yoke into the transmission and get one with either the correct universal joint size, or get an adapter universal joint which has one size on one crossbar and the other size on the other crossbar to fit that slip yoke to a different drive shaft. But that 3.75 to 1 first gear is a total waste. you won't be buying a 5-speed. You'll be buying a four-speed. second third fourth and fifth. And second gear is too high to comfortably pull out in or first gear is too low. you'd be better off staying with the four speed that's already installed and paid for. The driveshaft eat shortened anyway. You can just cut to drive shafts in half or at one end or the other and attach the Ford drive shaft to the Chevy drive shaft. With the correct length, of course. As I said before I think it's about three and a half inches shorter. I have also heard I got the 700R4 drive shaft from the 82's is the correct length. But also not very common.
Last edited by derekderek; Nov 21, 2018 at 06:31 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,794
Likes: 430
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Ok, I sleep one more time then I am on my way back to the salvage yard.
So we agree...
look for a GM V8 T5.
If possible a WC
In that case, I can use both my slip yoke and bellhousing.
if I cannot find that, I keep what I have because of the output shaft that works with my slip yoke. An adapter plate plus (If necessary) a bushing extension and I should be fine using my Muncie bellhousing. I’ll learn to live with the super deep first gear.
The advantage of a Ford V8 T5 would be a better gear stack... but I’d still need an adapter plate, a modified pilot bushing, and my slip yoke would no longer work.
So, stay with what I have rather than Ford, correct ?
L4 and S10 T5= forget it.
So we agree...
look for a GM V8 T5.
If possible a WC
In that case, I can use both my slip yoke and bellhousing.
if I cannot find that, I keep what I have because of the output shaft that works with my slip yoke. An adapter plate plus (If necessary) a bushing extension and I should be fine using my Muncie bellhousing. I’ll learn to live with the super deep first gear.
The advantage of a Ford V8 T5 would be a better gear stack... but I’d still need an adapter plate, a modified pilot bushing, and my slip yoke would no longer work.
So, stay with what I have rather than Ford, correct ?
L4 and S10 T5= forget it.
Maybe I would go for a NON WC, if I needed a T5 now, or if the "right" NON WC was for sale.
A NON WC, and be upgraded to WC later, if that is needed.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,352
Likes: 518
Thanks gents...
So, I went over to the salvage yard today and there was only, truly one box that might have worked and the gear stack there was even deeper @ 4.03
The salvage yard fellow is going to make a few calls to see if he can find a V8 T5; he’s got some connections... but I am not holding my breath. He said he’d have an answer within a day or three.
If I am stuck with this one, wisely or not, I’ll proceed with it. I can live with an overly deep first gear... but not without an OD. Such is the hobby overseas...
Stay tuned !
PS. If it really is intolerable; I’ll change my rear gearing.
So, I went over to the salvage yard today and there was only, truly one box that might have worked and the gear stack there was even deeper @ 4.03
The salvage yard fellow is going to make a few calls to see if he can find a V8 T5; he’s got some connections... but I am not holding my breath. He said he’d have an answer within a day or three.
If I am stuck with this one, wisely or not, I’ll proceed with it. I can live with an overly deep first gear... but not without an OD. Such is the hobby overseas...
Stay tuned !
PS. If it really is intolerable; I’ll change my rear gearing.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 970
From: Tennessee/Rhode Island
I am on the hunt again!
Looking for 88-92 Mechanical Speedo, 5.0 L V8 WC T5...2.95 first gear...to Dorians point .63 OD A MUST......I would possibly consider a .68 OD but that would be the minimal OD for my 425+ Gross HP L-82 355. I can move in first with the BW Super T-10 now from off idle with zero gas in first (thus the power of the 355...yea yea..you need a 383 for bottom end grunt..NOPE!) and can keep the car moving in 4th gear now below 1,000 RPM (as low as 800 RPM) with zero lugging with the 3.70 rear gears. The L-82 355 can easily tolerate a .50 OD if it was available...and I would get 25-26 MPG with carb on the motor. Most of the gains in MPG with all engines the last 20 years is MOSTLY OD's that allow the engines to spin 2,000 RPM @80 MPH or even lower......
Looking for 88-92 Mechanical Speedo, 5.0 L V8 WC T5...2.95 first gear...to Dorians point .63 OD A MUST......I would possibly consider a .68 OD but that would be the minimal OD for my 425+ Gross HP L-82 355. I can move in first with the BW Super T-10 now from off idle with zero gas in first (thus the power of the 355...yea yea..you need a 383 for bottom end grunt..NOPE!) and can keep the car moving in 4th gear now below 1,000 RPM (as low as 800 RPM) with zero lugging with the 3.70 rear gears. The L-82 355 can easily tolerate a .50 OD if it was available...and I would get 25-26 MPG with carb on the motor. Most of the gains in MPG with all engines the last 20 years is MOSTLY OD's that allow the engines to spin 2,000 RPM @80 MPH or even lower......
Last edited by jb78L-82; Nov 21, 2018 at 01:16 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,794
Likes: 430
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Thanks gents...
So, I went over to the salvage yard today and there was only, truly one box that might have worked and the gear stack there was even deeper @ 4.03
The salvage yard fellow is going to make a few calls to see if he can find a V8 T5; he’s got some connections... but I am not holding my breath. He said he’d have an answer within a day or three.
If I am stuck with this one, wisely or not, I’ll proceed with it. I can live with an overly deep first gear... but not without an OD. Such is the hobby overseas...
Stay tuned !
PS. If it really is intolerable; I’ll change my rear gearing.
So, I went over to the salvage yard today and there was only, truly one box that might have worked and the gear stack there was even deeper @ 4.03
The salvage yard fellow is going to make a few calls to see if he can find a V8 T5; he’s got some connections... but I am not holding my breath. He said he’d have an answer within a day or three.
If I am stuck with this one, wisely or not, I’ll proceed with it. I can live with an overly deep first gear... but not without an OD. Such is the hobby overseas...
Stay tuned !
PS. If it really is intolerable; I’ll change my rear gearing.
Last edited by c3_dk; Nov 21, 2018 at 01:25 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 970
From: Tennessee/Rhode Island
Your 3.36 with a 2.95 first gear will be 9.91 versus my BW Super T-10 close ratio 2.43 first gear and 3.70 in my car is 8.99. My first gear is pretty useless but tolerable. Your 3.36 with the 2.95 will be similar. Do not go any higher unless you want to start in 2nd gear with the T5 tranny. You really want like me a 2.95 first gear and you definitely want the .63 OD. My 355 can go down the highway all day long at 1,500 RPM with zero issues if an OD existed for that operation....Any big V8 like a 327/355/383 should easily be able to cruise at ultra low RPM's.....7/.8/.9 OD's were designed for low torque 4 and 6 cylinder engines..NOT V8's.
I listen to all the nonsense about a steep OD and comments from everything "the engine will lug, cam will not like it, carb will load up, you will foul spark plugs, etc"...maybe in THEIR engines some of which are monster BB 572's (OMG) but ignore the advice if your engine has remotely good low rpm manners....
I listen to all the nonsense about a steep OD and comments from everything "the engine will lug, cam will not like it, carb will load up, you will foul spark plugs, etc"...maybe in THEIR engines some of which are monster BB 572's (OMG) but ignore the advice if your engine has remotely good low rpm manners....
Last edited by jb78L-82; Nov 21, 2018 at 02:10 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,794
Likes: 430
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Your 3.36 with a 2.95 first gear will be 9.91 versus my BW Super T-10 close ratio 2.43 first gear and 3.70 in my car is 8.99. My first gear is pretty useless but tolerable. Your 3.36 with the 2.95 will be similar. Do not go any higher unless you want to start in 2nd gear with the T5 tranny. You really want like me a 2.95 first gear and you definitely want the .63 OD. My 355 can go down the highway all day long at 1,500 RPM with zero issues if an OD existed for that operation....Any big V8 like a 327/355/383 should easily be able to cruise at ultra low RPM's.....7/.8/.9 OD's were designed for low torque 4 and 6 cylinder engines..NOT V8's.
I listen to all the nonsense about a steep OD and comments from everything "the engine will lug, cam will not like it, carb will load up, you will foul spark plugs, etc"...maybe in THEIR engines some of which are monster BB 572's (OMG) but ignore the advice if your engine has remotely good low rpm manners....
I listen to all the nonsense about a steep OD and comments from everything "the engine will lug, cam will not like it, carb will load up, you will foul spark plugs, etc"...maybe in THEIR engines some of which are monster BB 572's (OMG) but ignore the advice if your engine has remotely good low rpm manners....
Last edited by c3_dk; Nov 21, 2018 at 02:18 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,352
Likes: 518