C3 Tech/Performance V8 Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Basic Tech and Maintenance for the C3 Corvette

Electric fan or not ?

 
Old 03-14-2019, 07:46 PM
  #61  
carriljc
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Don't fall for the b.s. about other so-called fans that folks are selling as Mark 8. Here is some reference. If they won't provide the Ford part number, then go elsewhere.


https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1594736070

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Old 03-14-2019, 09:15 PM
  #62  
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If anyone is convinced that the OEM fan and duct arrangement is better, I just pulled them both of my car tonight, intact! (No small feat for the duct, apparently).

There is SO MUCH ROOM up there now. I can't see ever going back.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:43 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by pauldana View Post
My fan is so quite, I had to add a light in the cockpit to show it is on...
I've got the dual SPAL's from deWitts and it sound like the Moffett Field NASA wind tunnel. Fortunately it doesn't come on all that much. Hoping to try a PWM solution sometime this summer.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:02 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by ignatz View Post
I've got the dual SPAL's from deWitts and it sound like the Moffett Field NASA wind tunnel. Fortunately it doesn't come on all that much. Hoping to try a PWM solution sometime this summer.
I bought a painless PWM, and it brings real logic to the table. Variable two stages, adjustable set points, A/C over ride, and adjustable speed/mph shut off. Then they stopped selling them.

They warn there is a chip inside that tells them the ambient temp of the box. Warranty was void if it exceded (blah blah) degrees.

I mounted mine way back on a aluminum heat sink. No issues in Death Valley. If it works there, it works anywhere.

I suspect too many people did not catch that fine print.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:03 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by ignatz View Post
I've got the dual SPAL's from deWitts and it sound like the Moffett Field NASA wind tunnel. Fortunately it doesn't come on all that much. Hoping to try a PWM solution sometime this summer.
ha! :-) funny:-)

I used to run 2 spal fans, holy poo yea they were loud..
i have to open the hood if the cars running and put my hand in to feel the air..

it it was an amazing change from my dule spals to the DeltaPAG

cools as good or better, no noise, 1/4 the weight, 1/4 the current draw...
seriously... why do you think all these new quad copters use them? Weight, power, strength

Last edited by pauldana; 03-14-2019 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:05 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by pauldana View Post
ha! :-) funny:-)

I used to run 2 spal fans, holy poo yea they were loud..
i have to open the hood of the cars running and put my hand in to feel the air..

it it was an amazing change from my dule spals to the DeltaPAG

cools as good or better, no noise, 1/4 the weight, 1/4 the current draw...
seriously... why do you think all these new quad copters use them? Weight, power, strength
Now you did it. Next thread, which drone can I buy and make my own cooling system?
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:08 PM
  #67  
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B2B: Thanks I will check it out. Haven't bought anything yet. Too many other thing sitting on the workbench and it is still pretty cool here.

_______________
On Amazon - bad reviews, pricey and anyway it is discontinued. Is it this one? Painless 30140 Dual Fan Controller

Last edited by ignatz; 03-14-2019 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:36 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Big2Bird View Post
Now you did it. Next thread, which drone can I buy and make my own cooling system?
:-)
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:39 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by ignatz View Post
B2B: Thanks I will check it out. Haven't bought anything yet. Too many other thing sitting on the workbench and it is still pretty cool here.

_______________
On Amazon - bad reviews, pricey and anyway it is discontinued. Is it this one? Painless 30140 Dual Fan Controller

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Old 03-14-2019, 10:42 PM
  #70  
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Yes 30140. It's fine if you think it out and wire it correctly.

I bet I paid $250-300 maybe?
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:11 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by pauldana View Post
ha! :-) funny:-)

I used to run 2 spal fans, holy poo yea they were loud..
i have to open the hood if the cars running and put my hand in to feel the air..

it it was an amazing change from my dule spals to the DeltaPAG

cools as good or better, no noise, 1/4 the weight, 1/4 the current draw...
seriously... why do you think all these new quad copters use them? Weight, power, strength
so is your brushless motor 3 phase ac converted? Is that why itís so efficient? I can see that the scimitar blade design would be much quieter.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:45 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by REELAV8R View Post
so is your brushless motor 3 phase ac converted? Is that why itís so efficient? I can see that the scimitar blade design would be much quieter.

From there web site:

Brushless Motor
Figure 1:
The brushless motor is the heart of the fan. It is constructed using high temp/high strength Neodymium magnets, hybrid ceramic bearings, stainless steel flux ring & multi-stranded "Litz" windings. The motor is very power dense, allowing for smaller construction, while generating high power. The operating life is conservatively rated at 30,000 hours. Please note, a typical brushed motor fan is rated at 2,000 hours. Brushless DC (BLDC) motors offer several advantages over brushed DC motors. BLDCs are lighter and more efficient than conventional brushed motors, therefore reducing the energy consumption of the vehicle. As a result, Saving Gas! The elimination of brushes in a BLDC significantly increases motor reliability, reduces noise, reduces heat and increases efficiency due to the elimination of friction between the brushes and the commutator. Brushed DC motors have a typical efficiency of 70-75%, while a brushless DC motor can achieve 96% efficiency, a +28% improvement. While a brushed motor operates, sparks are created when the brushes rub against the commutator, this creates a fire hazard and produces EMI. BLDCs generate no sparks and significantly reduce interference emissions allowing for easier compliance with electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) requirements. Most modern vehicles incorporate computer controls in engine management and other general vehicle operations. Reducing electromagnetic interference (EMI) is critical for proper vehicle operation. The BLDC motor has permanent magnets and flux ring which rotate around a fixed armature or stator, eliminating the problems of connecting current to the moving armature via brushes. The stator consists of a multiphase copper coil windings (U V W in figure 1) on a laminated core, and the rotor consists of permanent magnet segments or a molded ferrite ring that is attached at one end to the motorís shaft. The stator windings are fed with electric currents controlled in magnitude and sequence (commutated) with pulse width modulation (PWM) to effect rotation of the rotor element just as in a typical brushed motor. Back-electromagnetic force (BEMF) is used for rotor positioning. This eliminates the need for hall sensors chips in the motor to identify the rotors position. These sensors are prone to burning out which limit the reliability of a motor. Since there are no sensors in our motor, the BLDC motor is called "sensor-less". This "commutation" is controlled by the electronic control module (ECM). All brushless motors require an ECM for operation.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:00 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Big2Bird View Post
Yes 30140. It's fine if you think it out and wire it correctly.

I bet I paid $250-300 maybe?
From Delta PAG web site.... imho,,, near same price for a far better unit,, but then again, it is just opinion.


BRUSHLESS FAN KIT WITHOUT CONTROLLER

$325.00
16 inch

BRUSHLESS FAN KIT WITH CONTROLLER

$379.00 16 inch
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:18 AM
  #74  
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Mark 8 fan here. Picked it up over the winter for $70 at a local junkyard after talking with Alan and picked up a Dewitts during their January sale. Got it installed in the car but have yet to button up all of the wiring but bench tested it and the thing moves some air! Here is a pic of how well it fits the core. I did the same thing as Alan with the aluminum tabs and foam weatherstripping. Only issue I had was having to trim two small section out of the 79 core support due to the bottom tray it has and trimming some of the fan webbing to squeeze past the 1 1/8Ē sway bar.


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Old 03-15-2019, 11:21 AM
  #75  
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Jebby, you may want to look at the Volvo fan option form the 1990's Volvo 740, 850 or 950 sedan or wagon , it is removable from the shroud for the car and 16" and may fit inside the factory shroud. You can also grab their relay for an easy installation solution.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:42 PM
  #76  
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I have two 11" Spal fans attached to a PWM controller from DeRale. I am using a "BeCool" radiator with the Spal fans on a shroud that covers the entire radiator and has functional bypass flaps. Using a PWM controller makes a world of difference. Using the BEST PWM Fan controller would be the DeRale Part 16795. It starts the fans off at 50% power and only speeds up if the temperature is still going up. I tried the Painless controller and the second or third time I turned it on Smoke came out of the control box and it was gone. The DeRale 16795 takes it temperature reading at the point the coolant is returning to the engine and can actually maintain temperatures by adjusting the speeds of the fans to keep the temperature where you want it.

Fixing the over-heating problem First is GREAT ADVICE! Some cars will just run hot and Big block Corvettes are notorious for running hot to start with. Add 12.25-1 compression ratio using a cast iron head and the heat can get out of control very quickly. I installed a Snow Performance Water/Methanol Injection system to reduce combustion temperatures and the 116 octane fuel the car gets when under load.

Pulse Width Modulation is very helpful with cooling fans but it also helps if you have a electric fuel pump. I have a PWM Electric fuel pump controller from Aeromotive. It does the same thing, at low engine speeds the fuel pump is running slowly and when you go to full throttle it speeds up to keep the flow . This little baby saves a lot of noise from external pumps and brings back the peace and quiet at stoplights. When I hit the gas and take off it resumes the normal flow which is great.

The only noise I want to hear from my Corvette is the music of it's exhaust, Fans were not made to be heard.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:15 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by pauldana View Post
From there web site:

Brushless Motor
Figure 1:
The brushless motor is the heart of the fan. It is constructed using high temp/high strength Neodymium magnets, hybrid ceramic bearings, stainless steel flux ring & multi-stranded "Litz" windings. The motor is very power dense, allowing for smaller construction, while generating high power. The operating life is conservatively rated at 30,000 hours. Please note, a typical brushed motor fan is rated at 2,000 hours. Brushless DC (BLDC) motors offer several advantages over brushed DC motors. BLDCs are lighter and more efficient than conventional brushed motors, therefore reducing the energy consumption of the vehicle. As a result, Saving Gas! The elimination of brushes in a BLDC significantly increases motor reliability, reduces noise, reduces heat and increases efficiency due to the elimination of friction between the brushes and the commutator. Brushed DC motors have a typical efficiency of 70-75%, while a brushless DC motor can achieve 96% efficiency, a +28% improvement. While a brushed motor operates, sparks are created when the brushes rub against the commutator, this creates a fire hazard and produces EMI. BLDCs generate no sparks and significantly reduce interference emissions allowing for easier compliance with electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) requirements. Most modern vehicles incorporate computer controls in engine management and other general vehicle operations. Reducing electromagnetic interference (EMI) is critical for proper vehicle operation. The BLDC motor has permanent magnets and flux ring which rotate around a fixed armature or stator, eliminating the problems of connecting current to the moving armature via brushes. The stator consists of a multiphase copper coil windings (U V W in figure 1) on a laminated core, and the rotor consists of permanent magnet segments or a molded ferrite ring that is attached at one end to the motorís shaft. The stator windings are fed with electric currents controlled in magnitude and sequence (commutated) with pulse width modulation (PWM) to effect rotation of the rotor element just as in a typical brushed motor. Back-electromagnetic force (BEMF) is used for rotor positioning. This eliminates the need for hall sensors chips in the motor to identify the rotors position. These sensors are prone to burning out which limit the reliability of a motor. Since there are no sensors in our motor, the BLDC motor is called "sensor-less". This "commutation" is controlled by the electronic control module (ECM). All brushless motors require an ECM for operation.
Thanks Paulana, there is no doubt in my mind that the fan you are using is superior in several ways. In my case it's kinda like amsoil oil though. How good do I need to pay for?
For now since my current set up works well I'll probably stay with it. Bit in the future I may well be looking for something better and those PAG fans would fit the bill.
If a guy wants a good set up from scratch and has the cash, I'd use them.
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