starter motor issue 454
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 419
Likes: 58
From: montreal quebec
starter motor issue 454
folks, 71 454 came with 1980 truck engine, turn key to start, click click then turns over ok, ok changed solinoid, new, starter is new, shimmed starter, same, gears perfect, changed part under steering
column, same....changed starter bolts, new, same.. Question is is there a difference in these big block starters?? this is the heavy duty starter, (AUTOMATIC) WOULD A 71 STARTER BE THE SAME FOR
A 1980 TRUCK ENGINE really fed up trying to fix this dam thing, I did put a volt meter at the starter, do not expect a wire issue. when I get click it still shows 12 volt to the inside pole (engage pole)
column, same....changed starter bolts, new, same.. Question is is there a difference in these big block starters?? this is the heavy duty starter, (AUTOMATIC) WOULD A 71 STARTER BE THE SAME FOR
A 1980 TRUCK ENGINE really fed up trying to fix this dam thing, I did put a volt meter at the starter, do not expect a wire issue. when I get click it still shows 12 volt to the inside pole (engage pole)
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 254
From: Catlett VA
From what you described, the solenoid is engaging, but the minimum amperage to turn the starter motor is not supplied immediately until (probably) somewhere in your main circuit it arcs and makes contact. I would take speedreed8's suggestion and check for a good ground connection between the frame and starter and also check the main wire from the battery to the starter. Check the crimped ends of those large gauge wires for corrosion, which would contribute to a poor connection. The ground wire on my 68 convert with NOM 454 looked good until I removed it and found the ends were so corroded inside the crimp that they nearly fell off when I pulled on them.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 419
Likes: 58
From: montreal quebec
UPDATE.. after running out of solutions, NOT the ground straps, they were checked, took starter to shop, tested and ok'd, it's new, installed again, had wify turn key a few times, 1 out of 5 times it still clicks,
with cover off I see that the bendix gear actually hits the flywheel, STILL, reshimmed again, and now too far away, ok, did not have the back bracket that goes from end of stater to motor case, now now
suspect with weight of startereven with the new bolts it sags down, which means bendix goes up and hit flywheel, so I do not have the bracket, will try to make one and get started bolted rite so it
will not move at all, and just to make things really good, the last time I pulled start off it slipped, to stop it from hitting ground I put my hand under and now have a split finger from being crushed.
ahh it never ends..and just to make my day my range rover evoque is being towed to dealer for the 4th time in two months with a non start issue, what a piece of crap. Mike.
with cover off I see that the bendix gear actually hits the flywheel, STILL, reshimmed again, and now too far away, ok, did not have the back bracket that goes from end of stater to motor case, now now
suspect with weight of startereven with the new bolts it sags down, which means bendix goes up and hit flywheel, so I do not have the bracket, will try to make one and get started bolted rite so it
will not move at all, and just to make things really good, the last time I pulled start off it slipped, to stop it from hitting ground I put my hand under and now have a split finger from being crushed.
ahh it never ends..and just to make my day my range rover evoque is being towed to dealer for the 4th time in two months with a non start issue, what a piece of crap. Mike.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Get a New starter from a Late model ~ 96 up Suburban that has a Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction starter ... (PMGR) ... GM did away with field coils years ago and uses magnets instead ... LOTS lighter (fingers & sanity saved, bracket deleted) ... no coils to eat energy. UNDER $100 New. Get a new alternator too for cheap. Yes, Of Course they are Asian.
DB Electrical
Kingsport, Tennessee
https://www.dbelectrical.com/
DB Electrical
Kingsport, Tennessee
- 800.753.2242
- Free Ship
- 1 yr warranty
https://www.dbelectrical.com/
Racer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 396
Likes: 101
From: Lehigh Valley Pennsylvania
I still think it is a battery cable/ground or a battery. Solenoids click on low voltage. Are your battery terminals clean? Did you try jumping it when it clicks? Will a local auto parts store check your battery under load? Can you run jumper cables from the battery directly to the starter? This is hard to do without shorting the positive but you can still do the negative only. Connect it directly to bare metal on the starter case. Do you have a battery charger with a "start setting. You may be able to connect that directly to the starter.
Solenoid clicking is usually the battery. On corvettes the ground is the second place to look followed by the positive cable. To Ronarndt's point, I have seen cables look good but have corrosion under the insulation that is not visible. This corrosion has enough voltage drop to cause the symptoms you are seeing.
You mention that the back starter support is not connected. I believe this is where my separate ground connects from the frame. Do you have that frame ground attached to the starter?
Solenoid clicking is usually the battery. On corvettes the ground is the second place to look followed by the positive cable. To Ronarndt's point, I have seen cables look good but have corrosion under the insulation that is not visible. This corrosion has enough voltage drop to cause the symptoms you are seeing.
You mention that the back starter support is not connected. I believe this is where my separate ground connects from the frame. Do you have that frame ground attached to the starter?
Last edited by 2mnyvets; Mar 23, 2019 at 12:40 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 419
Likes: 58
From: montreal quebec
upate again, yes all grounds are very clean, yes cable is bolted above starter, changed cables, put in new bracket, reshimmed starter 4th time, keep on adding shims, I HAVE GIVEN UP, never
in my 50 years of working on cars have I had a problem so unable to fix. I am going to live with the ceick 1 out of 5 times. FU*Ki*g car time to sell. Thanks to all for your input. this is last post.
in my 50 years of working on cars have I had a problem so unable to fix. I am going to live with the ceick 1 out of 5 times. FU*Ki*g car time to sell. Thanks to all for your input. this is last post.
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Drifting
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,263
Likes: 512
From: perth Aus w.a
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (stock)
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Double check your battery connections ,my 69 427 did the click ,click thing last week ,cleaned and tightened the battery cables and it roared in to life .
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Starter current flow MUST travel from battery thru cables and connections, then thru solenoid and starter, and THEN back thru cables/connections to the battery. If ANY of those items has excess resistance (internal cable rot/damage, dirty connections, etc), your starter will not get adequate current to have it turn the engine.
The ground cable to the starter is NOT the braided copper engine-to-body piece. It is a large (4 awg) wire running from the right side motor mount to the right side chassis (frame). If that item is missing, your symptoms are 'normal'.
The ground cable to the starter is NOT the braided copper engine-to-body piece. It is a large (4 awg) wire running from the right side motor mount to the right side chassis (frame). If that item is missing, your symptoms are 'normal'.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 419
Likes: 58
From: montreal quebec
Folks, got under car with wify turns key, the problem is bendex hit flywheel, instead of going onto gears,, tried the 1/8 shim provided by starter outlet, too far away, I tried shims 1/16 same result 1 of 5
times it hits, I am wondering if this bendex on start motor is a china unit, I now suspect the bendex gear, this is the ONLY piece that I have not changed. also tried shims only on 1 bolt, thin and thick,
this car is bewitched.
times it hits, I am wondering if this bendex on start motor is a china unit, I now suspect the bendex gear, this is the ONLY piece that I have not changed. also tried shims only on 1 bolt, thin and thick,
this car is bewitched.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Either you have bad parts or 'wrong' parts, if the drive gear is not engaging. Past owners/builders might have installed anything to 'make it work' and get a sale.
But you can't let that bother you. Stay focused: find the problems; fix the problems. At least you have identified one 'root cause' which you can resolve.
But you can't let that bother you. Stay focused: find the problems; fix the problems. At least you have identified one 'root cause' which you can resolve.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Woodstock Alabama
i dont know if you are still watching this thread or not, but i have resolved this problem once on a friends car. check the switch wire going to the starter solenoid. on older chevy's that wire is undersized. it tends to develope hot spots as it ages. the wire can actually burn in two.
when several strands of the wire have become overheated it will burn a few strands open and then the increasingly smaller actual wire size can no longer carry the load. you will still read 12 volts on it, but under load the resistance goes up and voltage drops. when you arent trying to start the car voltage returns to normal. the wire will eventually burn itself in two, but leave the insulation intact, at a point about 8 inches above the starter connection. to check it. remove the starter and try pulling the wire between your hands as if you were going to stretch it like a rubber band. i believe that may help. its worth a shot before you toss your baby to the curb. best of luck to you.
when several strands of the wire have become overheated it will burn a few strands open and then the increasingly smaller actual wire size can no longer carry the load. you will still read 12 volts on it, but under load the resistance goes up and voltage drops. when you arent trying to start the car voltage returns to normal. the wire will eventually burn itself in two, but leave the insulation intact, at a point about 8 inches above the starter connection. to check it. remove the starter and try pulling the wire between your hands as if you were going to stretch it like a rubber band. i believe that may help. its worth a shot before you toss your baby to the curb. best of luck to you.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,082
Likes: 3,399
From: SW Florida.
You can even do a bubbaesque cheat to check Beaut's thoery. Get a piece of wire bigger than yellow start wire. Hook it on S terminal of starter. Thread it into the interior long enough to reach battery positive. When you get click, touch wire to batt positive. That solenoid is a big amp draw. Second biggest draw on car, next to starter itself. The bendix has to hit the flywheel. Solenoid needs enough power to push tops of teeth by each other, and then engage switch at end of solenoid travel. A lot of people put a ford solenoid in the circuit to provide a shorter, more direct current path for solenoid power. All inboard boats use this setup.
Last edited by derekderek; Mar 25, 2019 at 07:20 AM.