OMG!! YOU ARE KILLIN' ME, BUT THANK YOU. I will remember this the next time we have a three hour conversation. I'm just glad and happy for Fast81/Dean that he got it sorted out and is now happy with the results.

 

I don't talk to a dying relative for 3 hours! That was fun. It's my honor!

Being Parochial...I enjoy the Cross-fire guys and adding to their understanding of a SALIENT fuel injection system. I'm a BOSCH CIS expert and I'll tell anyone this is a good system!

Unkahal.

 

Dean...Now with that new found power, those new rear tires you going to need are on you, not me. LOL

 

Whose this guy leaving big black number elevens on our road?

 

Some prelim road tests with my GTechPro has my 0-60 at 6.0 secs but that is on a crappy country road without a straight/flat 1/4 mile -- but i know where there are some nearby when i have more time.

I'm taking her on the 3 hr Fall Colors Tour tomorrow with ~400 other Vettes -- most of those will be C5/6/7's

 

Hell yeah, give em hell.

 

Hung right on the bumpers of a few C7s and pulled away from a C5 behind me --

 

Nice job Dean! I love messin' with C5s, they don't like it when a C3 pulls away from them...especially if it's a CF. LOL

 

Thanks for posting this!

I'm still waiting on the fence, concerned about the perfection of the Renegade - there have been so many reported issues with, this clearance issue or that hole (i.e. EGR) not lining up and having to modify this or that.. or, lack of support. Seems you need to have patience and a streak of machinist/engineer in you to install it even following (as reported) the instructions. Has it really been perfected 100% or is it still situational for each one? And, is it serialized so that you know which batch to stay away from? I honestly fear that call from my local Corvette mechanic explaining his frustration and additional cost to track down and resolve the issues - and, perhaps having to move my car outside while dealing with it.
And, I really, really wonder why they did/do not offer it without the 'loud & proud' "RENEGADE" logo prominently cast into it. For that reason alone I'm leaning against it after coming this far with keeping everything basically stock, as much I really want one.

 

Any intake these days can have those issues. Have him check the flanges for straightness, take care of the mount holes in advance
Id certainly use one its night and day better than the stocker.
With all the overseas stuff being bought seems the us companies have to cut corners so now we have to reinvent the wheel it seems.
If its any consolation a new 3k set of heads I have here had serious issues . When co's hire 3rd world people that stuff happens.

 

I bought a Renegade about 18 months ago, completely unaware of the issues and whinging that seam to surround this intake. I wanted to get one while performance parts for a crossfire were still available. It sat unopened in my shed for about six months until I was ready to do the job.
When I got around to doing the job it fitted perfectly and I couldn’t be happier. There were some very minor issues ie two of the bolt hole for the throttle bodies weren’t deep enough so I simply shortened the bolts no big deal. Also where the oil pressure fitting comes out of the rear China wall there was a clearance issue. If I recall the documentation that comes with the manifold recommends that you check that. Five minutes with a 4” grinder and that issue was solved as well.
I don’t dispute that people have had issues but my point is I bought one shipped it to Australia installed it not problem, happy days.
Oh and it does have a big “load and proud” Renegade in raised lettering on the lid.

 

OK, let's answering these one by one.
Q: I'm still waiting on the fence, concerned about the perfection of the Renegade - there have been so many reported issues with, this clearance issue or that hole (i.e. EGR) not lining up and having to modify this or that.. or, lack of support. Seems you need to have patience and a streak of machinist/engineer in you to install it even following (as reported) the instructions

A: I completely understand your concern and that you are still on the fence about the manifold. However, the deign of the manifold is SOLID and works just fine. I can not control the machining aspect of the units, nor can I tell the company how to run their business. It's a shame that they have so much trouble and issues with the machining process. There is no magic or "special" wisdom needed to replace the manifold, it's just a Gen-I SBC manifold just like any other. The instructions are pretty clear and straight forward IMO and anyone who has ever replaced a manifold shouldn't have any issues. I personally wrote the instructions and at first wasn't going to do that, but decided later to create something for those who have no experience.

Q: Has it really been perfected 100% or is it still situational for each one? And, is it serialized so that you know which batch to stay away from? I honestly fear that call from my local Corvette mechanic explaining his frustration and additional cost to track down and resolve the issues - and, perhaps having to move my car outside while dealing with it.

A: Has it been perfected? Well, that's a matter of opinion really. If you mean by design, yes it is and ready to go. If you mean by machining, then the answer would be "maybe". Ever since EMS has taken over the machining, we have had issues. When we first started machining the manifold locally, we NEVER had an issue with a single manifold. The first 100 manifolds were serialized by me personally, so yes, there are some serial numbered manifold out there and they are ALL good. I also added some of my own custom touches to each manifold before it went out the door. EMS DOES NOT do that now. There is no way that I can say that you would never have an issue with any manifold bought, it happens, its called manufacturing and things happen. However, I did try to make every effort to make sure that each manifold was as good as it gets before going out.

Q: And, I really, really wonder why they did/do not offer it without the 'loud & proud' "RENEGADE" logo prominently cast into it. For that reason alone I'm leaning against it after coming this far with keeping everything basically stock, as much I really want one.

A: Ok, REALLY! I have to beat you up a bit about that one. Why wouldn't we put that on our manifold? There has NEVER been a production cast aluminum manifold made by ANY company in the history of CFI for ANY crossfire car, EVER! We were rather proud of our design and research that went into that unit by a lot of people. There is a lot of technology built into that manifold that you don't see or aren't aware of, trust me on this. If you only knew what we went through on that project from day one until the first pour. My head hurts just thinking about it, not to mention all the naysayers out there on the forums who called BS, it would make your head spin. However, they were ALL wrong when it finally made its debut. It was ALL that we said it was and would be and worked much better than the XRam ever thought about working HANDS DOWN! The fluid (flow) dynamics of the XRam was crap at best. Our manifold gave a guy here on this forum over three tenths faster ETs in his 84...consistently, not just a fluke pass, every pass. He was running a XRam before the swap as well so he could compare XRam to ours. So, what does that say for the Renegade? I don't care how you spin it, the Renegade is the best manifold out there for the CF motors running CFI no matter what.

So now that that is over, what I'm purposing is a blueprinted manifold of sorts that WILL be machined correctly the first time and also have some other custom touches to it and should flow like a banshee. That is the goal, will it happen? That will depend on a few things all coming together and the planets line up just right. There has already been enough interest that I've had communication with other members who want to help fund the new project and that is VERY nice IMO and I thank you for the offer. If it works out, you should be able to purchase a great manifold that should perform even better. Stay tuned for more on this as time goes by. We are getting into the holiday season, so things may slow down a bit, but we'll see. If you visit my site and look at the company Blog, it will have all the latest news on what I'm doing or going to do. Thanks guys!

One last thing about the Renegade. In the entire time the Renegade has been out, we have NEVER had anyone contact us and say..."Your manifold is a POS and doesn't do what you said it will do". I guess the proof is in the puddin'. I hope this answers your questions or concerns.

 

Good man, Buc.
Classy note.
Pride in product!!!
I and I believe many others respect your extensive knowledge - especially, with the Renegade.


But, this earnest and very useful insight reinforces my prevailing ‘stay tuned - the best is yet to come’ yellow light about buying one.

Regarding the molded-in ‘loud & proud’ logo, I admire your hard-earned American product pride (!) and, believe that it is proper and customary for aftermarket manifolds! But, you need to rise above the average aftermarket. Pls accept that a disproportionately high % of C3 owners place a disproportionately high premium on maintaining vintage car originality - or, at least not screaming “aftermarket” whenwe accept NCRS guidelines which I and many others unapologetically do for a wide swath of personal/aspirational reasons - which unnecessarily reduces the target/$ market for your great product. What about a bright, prominent aluminized RENEGADE sticker as a compromise, and could be carefully removed when it matters to the aspiring buyer? I spent most of my career at Ford managing our aftermarket parts ops. - my Q1 suppliers are usually able to creatively come up with win-win co-branding solutions when essential that served most every segment, while increasing satisfaction and sales volumes/loyalty.

Again, nice response, sir!

 

Lakeside - i hear your reservations but some things to consider

First -- 82 XFire vettes will never be rare/crazy valuable, so the "Renegade" logo doesn't bother me. Hell, after all the TBI's, hoses, piping, brackets, cables, and massive Air Cleaner its hard to even see

Second -- There really isn't anything else out there for XFire intakes that isn't cobbled together to swap for the very substandard OEM intake

Third -- my install wasn't on a stock 200hp L83, mine had a dealer installed 355hp ZZ4 with the stock injectors dialed up to 15psi (258hp) just so it would idle but would only rev to 4K RPM which was fine for simple cruising and quick bursts. Just removing my air flap caused the idle to lean enough to cause stumbling. By all FI equations i could find, the stock injectors can realistically only feed a 270-280hp motor dialed up to 17-18psi. So my renegade install was paired with a 90lb injector upgrade as well (which at my current 15-16 psi can feed 353 hp) which is perfect. My now stock looking motor spins up to 6000RPM at will and run with 5th/6th/7th Gen (non Z06) vettes up to 90-100mph where our C3 aerodynamics start getting dicey.

So in essence, i enabled another 100hp that the engine was already capable of making, to be available.

 

Thank you for the kind words, it is appreciated.

There are a lot of "purist" C3 vette owners out there for sure and I get that. However, even if you were one of those owners and took your car to be judged, it would fail (lose points) no matter what was or wasn't on the top plate. It would become rather clear and obvious to someone if they knew what they were looking at that the Renegade was not a stock GM CF manifold. So then the fact the the manifold has the word Renegade on it now becomes a mute point, doesn't it? We did try to retain as much of a stock look as possible though in the design, but could only go so far with that. My 82 has a somewhat "stockish" look which is what I like, a sleeper if you will. Lots of people at the local car show that look at it and give me compliments on how clean it looks and that it is looks stock until I hit the key. The look is usually priceless. Their next response is something like...It doesn't sound like a stock CF. My response is; Yeah...It doesn't run like one either. My 82 is a solid mid 12 car right now as it sits which is very respectable for any CF car still running CFI. I don't get hung up on NCRS or anything else, but I do get it that some like that stuff and are into it. I have a ton of history paperwork for my car and its documentation. I also have a Bloomington Gold certificate for my car when it was used as a Bloomington Gold judges training car. The previous owner was a Bloomington Gold judge. My car is in better condition today than when I bought it 28 years ago and a whole lot faster.

The best I can suggest to you is to just keep watching the forums and my site for more word on the manifold upgrade project. I'm hoping that it will and I can make it work, but no guarantees.

I'm glad as hell that Dean is finally happy with his new found CF power and the way it runs now. Now if he can only keep a set of tires on it for more than a few months at a time, that would be awesome! Let it rip Dean! ENJOY!

 

Still pursuing the raw casting manifold project and have been rather busy. Getting a little push back on this from CA company. Oh well, it's my tooling or at least 50% of it. If they **** me off too much I will see about pulling the tooling completely. Posted up new items on the site, like top plate gaskets and other things.

 

Like I mentioned on the C4 forum today...Just to let everyone know, there is a VERY good possibility that the tooling is going to be removed from EMS. More on this as it develops.

 

So, after the call, it was determined that the tooling WILL be pulled from EMS. Checking on pricing with the foundry now to see what can be worked out for the "blue printed" manifolds I would like to do. I talked with our original machinist who did the manifold in the beginning today and he is ready to go when I am. He said that at least the ones he does will come out right or they won't go out the door. It all comes down to cost. I was also thinking about something to do with the top plate to show it was a "blue printed" manifold, but I need to work on that one. Also have some other things in the works to do with the manifold that I talked with my machinist about and is on-board with. Who knows what might pop-up and become available in the future? watch the forum and the site for more on all this as it unfolds. Thanks guys!

 

So for this design improvement, would it be to benefit bigger cube motors ?

 

Not sure how this is going to all work if anything yet. I have been playing around with a few ideas, but nothing definite. I have a bad feeling about our tooling right now and HOPE I'M WRONG. If the tooling is bad, all bets are off as to what will happen next.

I would like to build a 421 motor with the Renegade on it, fueling becomes a concern, but If successful, it would be a 10 second car for sure N/A, no power adders. I would have to go to a larger TB than I have which is 2.13" now, so 2.25" is not out of the question and then I would have to go back to the flow bench and see what they flow and go from there.