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Old Aug 3, 2019 | 10:46 AM
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Default Fuel injection

Thinking about aftermarket injection but after looking at reviews at summit racing wonder if its reliable enough. Carb always gets me back home.Seen where people had issues with customer service and tech support from the different manufacturers. If you went with it.Tell me your experience with it and how its held up.Thanks for your time.
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Old Aug 3, 2019 | 02:02 PM
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Imo, the cost to swap over to FI is not worth the benefits gained.
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Old Aug 3, 2019 | 10:03 PM
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To answer your basic question, ,, , i thoroughly enjoy my FiTech EFI, it performs exactly as advertised, 2 years and it still works just wonderfully, I enjoy going to the car anytime hot, or cold, and only have to turn the ignition key and it fires immediately, ,,,
Each person's expectation is different depending on what they're trying to solve as to their own issues with a carb,,, so, even though a EFI may be good for one person,, it may not resolve a issue another person may be looking to correct, ,

And in all reality, , money spent should not be a factor, ,,, because, you'll never be able to justify the coast,,,, so,, just do it if you want it,,,,
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Old Aug 3, 2019 | 10:14 PM
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I, on the other hand, have a 48 year-old Q-Jet on my 217K miles original engine and it, also, works flawlessly.

Bottom line: Either a carb or EFI will work well...if both are set up properly. The carb is much less expensive and much less trouble to get working properly. You could rebuild it and set it up yourself, or you could contact Lars (V8FastCars@msn.com) and have him rebuild and set it up 'expertly' [better than new stock] for a fraction of the cost of EFI.

But, there is nothing 'wrong' with EFI. When properly programmed, it will be more economical, probably have smoother idle, and start ever so easily. It just depends on what you want....and how much you want to pay for it. As far as "performance" goes....there will be NO DIFFERENCE between a well set up carb and a properly set up EFI. When you put the proper fuel/air mixture in the intake, the engine will put out maximum power.
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Old Aug 3, 2019 | 10:47 PM
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Its not the money.I was worried about reliability. I have new holley on it now.Tired of vaporized fuel after shut down and other problems ethenol causes.
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Old Aug 4, 2019 | 08:48 AM
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Well then,, there's your answer, the EFI units will run on any percentage of ethanol with no issues, just make sure all your rubber lines are compatible,,,
For me, I wanted something different, and I've had great success, hope you do too whatever your choice is,
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Old Aug 4, 2019 | 09:35 AM
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7T1, is on the mark.

I'd been determined to trash can the carburetor set up on my 72 since first driving the car in 1983.

In 2008 I changed my mind after a Lars rebuilt Q-Jet. I thought I hated carbs, especially Q-Jets until I picked up a Q-Jet Lars and rebuilt. Discovered the Lars Q-Jet was the first correctly rebuilt and calibrated carb I'd ever had. My 72 even with the old tired 350 that was weak in two cylinders fired up and ran near perfect compared to nightmare of the locally rebuilt Q-Jet.

A correctly rebuilt and calibrated Q-Jet is 95% like fuel injection on a good engine with a proper ignition system.

Moved on to a Dart 400 with a Demon eventually but the only reason the carb stayed was I'm learned first hand - a correctly set up carb can work very well. My three other fun cars all have fuel injected LS engines.

I've come savor the first start up of the day and warm up 2 minutes sequence when getting my 72 out. It's part of the classic Corvette experience and fun - once you have a good carb.
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Old Aug 4, 2019 | 03:25 PM
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"A correctly rebuilt and calibrated Q-Jet is 95% like fuel injection on a good engine with a proper ignition system."

^^ That is such a LARGE over statement. I like a carb and it's the cheaper and easier way to go, but it's not going to accommodate for knock, elevation, air density, and various other factors like EFI can. Not even close. Will it get it done and let you drive sure.

Original question is efi reliable...um YES since about 85 with TPI, the Holley EFI systems are completely worth it, relatively speaking. If you're car is running to your liking with a carb then stick with it. But reliable shouldn't be a concern with EFI at this point.
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Old Aug 4, 2019 | 10:39 PM
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This needs to be said to everybody thinking of efi in any older car. Do not put a 40 psi pump in the tank and pressurize a 40 year old steel fuel line. It is a great way to find a rust pit or stress crack that might never show with a few inches of vacuum instead of high pressure. A leak in fuel line before mechanical pump and you suck air and stop running. A leak in 40 psi feed line can spray all over the exhaust system and the car keeps running. The entire fuel system needs replaced.

Last edited by derekderek; Aug 4, 2019 at 10:42 PM.
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Old Aug 5, 2019 | 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by derekderek
This needs to be said to everybody thinking of efi in any older car. Do not put a 40 psi pump in the tank and pressurize a 40 year old steel fuel line. It is a great way to find a rust pit or stress crack that might never show with a few inches of vacuum instead of high pressure. A leak in fuel line before mechanical pump and you suck air and stop running. A leak in 40 psi feed line can spray all over the exhaust system and the car keeps running. The entire fuel system needs replaced.

Those are wise words.

When I did mine, I replaced all of the supply and return tubing with -6AN hose.
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Old Aug 5, 2019 | 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by rugerm44
Its not the money.I was worried about reliability. I have new holley on it now.Tired of vaporized fuel after shut down and other problems ethenol causes.
Sounds to me like you already have a reliability issue. I have a 20 year old holey system and the closest it has been to breaking down is 1 when I didnt realize it wasnt finished uploading the new tune and it wouldnt start.( newer systems dont have this issue.) 2 the o2 sensor is acting up and going off line, solved that issue by putting the car into open loop.
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Old Aug 8, 2019 | 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 60 SHARK
To answer your basic question, ,, , i thoroughly enjoy my FiTech EFI, it performs exactly as advertised, 2 years and it still works just wonderfully, I enjoy going to the car anytime hot, or cold, and only have to turn the ignition key and it fires immediately, ,,,
Each person's expectation is different depending on what they're trying to solve as to their own issues with a carb,,, so, even though a EFI may be good for one person,, it may not resolve a issue another person may be looking to correct, ,
...and those are the reasons I WILL do the swap.

I need to get the job done before then end of August, and already have all the necessary parts... so you can track me. I am moving over from a reasonably decent Edelbrock, AFB.

I went with the rebadged FiTech, Summit kit + an Edelbrock fuel sump.
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Old Aug 8, 2019 | 05:47 PM
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As somebody who lives at 7000+ feet, carbs just are not practical to daily drive. The cost for a fuel injection swap makes the unit almost disposable when you consider how much less time needs to be spent tinkering and rebuilding.
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Old Aug 8, 2019 | 05:59 PM
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So tell me, will injection buy me mpg's. Serious.
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Old Aug 8, 2019 | 10:54 PM
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,,, well, here is my thoughts,,if that's one of the main reasons you swap,, you'll be disappointed, ,, i might have gained 5mpg average, but that will, in no way , be a pay off for the swap to EFI,,a well tuned eng, and a perfectly tuned carb, should get you close to the same MPG,,,if you want better MPH,,, change your driveing habits, and add a overdrive trans, ,,,, , just my 2 cents,,, I have EFI, and TKO 5spd, .68 od, with 3:70 rear gear, and am getting 15 to 20 MPG most all the time,,
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Old Aug 9, 2019 | 04:30 AM
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OLD tech head here, I used to build my own stereo gear back in the vacuum tube era yet, even modify my own TV sets build my own TV tuners, make my own stereo speakers.....so long about '92 or so I wanted Direct Port Fuel Injection on my Pontiac 455, so I went junkyarding and pulled a system out of a '79? Caddy 425 engine/car.....
not only a power increase, but MPG also.....18 on the road, not so awful evil considering no overdrive....400 turbo, 321 rear....'70 Lemans Convertible fully loaded....

So upon getting my '72 vette convertible, old show car in '95 I decided to upgrade and got an L98 system on it, but then changed to an LT1 setup with HEI up top......gets 24 MPG on freeway....200 auto, 336 rear...fully loaded....speed density system to minimize the air intake plumbing.....

see pix below....
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Old Aug 9, 2019 | 10:13 AM
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Default Obsolescence

Seems modern Fuel Injection comprised of Hardware, Firmware and Software.

I have NO direct experience with Aftermarket FI but, like most folk, have blanched at just how soon everyday computer stuff requires updating ...
... is no longer supported by manufacturer ... its manufacturers change their missions like underwear ... it becomes obsolete.

Take Edelbrock's changes, for example:
To the delight of many, some years ago Edelbrock re-introduced a viable clone of the venerable Rochester QuadraJet carburetor ...
... (perhaps manufactured by Weber) ... they are (were!) great carbs ... But then Edelbrock discontinued offering QJets and ...
... now their support of repair parts dwindles. Vic Sr established the company, His son Vic Jr built it into a privately-held industry leader ...
... then Jr took it public (briefly) ... then Jr bought shares back & returned to privately-held ... things looked good with Jr at helm and his kids also leading ...
... But THEN the Crash of 2008 ... times Very tough for big boy toys market... by 2010 Jr partnered with a private equity group (IOP) ...
... Vic Jr passed away in 2017.

Seems the modern aftermarket fuel injection retrofit packages deliver most customers' expectations; if not exceeding them ... But, for how long ?
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Old Aug 9, 2019 | 10:49 AM
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Interesting thought
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Old Aug 9, 2019 | 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jackson
Seems modern Fuel Injection comprised of Hardware, Firmware and Software.

I have NO direct experience with Aftermarket FI but, like most folk, have blanched at just how soon everyday computer stuff requires updating ...
... is no longer supported by manufacturer ... its manufacturers change their missions like underwear ... it becomes obsolete.

Take Edelbrock's changes, for example:
To the delight of many, some years ago Edelbrock re-introduced a viable clone of the venerable Rochester QuadraJet carburetor ...
... (perhaps manufactured by Weber) ... they are (were!) great carbs ... But then Edelbrock discontinued offering QJets and ...
... now their support of repair parts dwindles. Vic Sr established the company, His son Vic Jr built it into a privately-held industry leader ...
... then Jr took it public (briefly) ... then Jr bought shares back & returned to privately-held ... things looked good with Jr at helm and his kids also leading ...
... But THEN the Crash of 2008 ... times Very tough for big boy toys market... by 2010 Jr partnered with a private equity group (IOP) ...
... Vic Jr passed away in 2017.

Seems the modern aftermarket fuel injection retrofit packages deliver most customers' expectations; if not exceeding them ... But, for how long ?
carb'd cars havent been in production since the 80s are they still being supported? I have a Holley efi system on my car that came out in the late 90s, it still works, it still has parts available, there are still techs at Holley that help me with it. There isnt a newer firmware for it but the one I have is fine, its limited by its number of in/out puts and isnt as fancy as the new stuff. It requires an older windows system that I have simulated on newer machines.
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Old Aug 9, 2019 | 10:59 AM
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That's my big issue......will you be able to get Holley Sniper parts 10-15 years from now? They already have a whole line of discontinued EFI systems (Pro-Jection)....in fact, so do the others.

I think the EFI question is better suited to cars with more radical engines...this is where they really shine. A bone stock well running 72' 350/200 is not going to see much improvement.

Jebby
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