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My '77 Passes CA Smog!!

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Old Apr 20, 2020 | 03:35 PM
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Default My '77 Passes CA Smog!!

I don't know how much you guys remember my story but man, what a relief. Since the last debacle I did all this:

Fixed the two sticking lifters on #2 cylinder (Seafoam in the crankcase worked for that)
Replaced defective distributor rotor
Replaced plug wires, another one had burned through
Replaced spark plug with cracked insulator

And timing...so my high idle turned out to be that the centrifugal advance was coming in too soon, the springs on the brand new MSD 8362 were very weak. Put stiffer ones in and problem solved! So right now advance is 10* initial, 22* centrifugal, and about 7* vacuum. I have some room play with it a bit to see if I can get a little more power but right now the car is running good, smooth, plenty of pep, I'm really happy with it now.
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Old Apr 20, 2020 | 03:38 PM
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Congrats.
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Old Apr 20, 2020 | 04:37 PM
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Thank you MIke. I should probably mention that the engine is far from stock. CR upped to 9.2:1, AFR heads, tweaked Rochester carb, Lunati mid range cam, headers, aluminum intake. Driveability upgrades too, Bowtie overdrive 700R4, Borgeson steering, Vintage Air, Retrosound...so there is hope for us guys in California.
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Old Apr 20, 2020 | 04:51 PM
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There ya go. Now go drive to get groceries and back.
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Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:30 PM
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Do you still have the cat and single exhaust??
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Old Apr 20, 2020 | 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by wilcar
Do you still have the cat and single exhaust??
It's stock Y-cat-Y, any diversion from that would fail visual. Although I do know some have gotten away with dual exhausts/2 cats in CA but I didn't want to push my luck.
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Old Apr 20, 2020 | 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Big2Bird
There ya go. Now go drive to get groceries and back.
I can do better than that. I also have a '67 Jag XKE and a couple of weeks ago put the top down and me and the Mrs. took the back way to a local winery hoping to stock up. When we walked in, no tasting but they did have a special case price going, $9.90 a bottle...!! Then the nice lady noticed the Jag and proceeded to tell us about their '69 Vette. So now the plan is when the wine runs out, pop the t-tops and head back down for another case. Here is a photo from a few years ago, the Boxster is gone.


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Old Apr 20, 2020 | 08:58 PM
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Cool. So what were the numbers before and after?
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Old Apr 20, 2020 | 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by zwede
Cool. So what were the numbers before and after?
Here are the printouts. For clarification, ignore the circles on the before, the tech did that as we were discussing the results. It made sense at the time but out of context doesn't anymore.
Before:



And After:


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Old Apr 20, 2020 | 11:51 PM
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Wow, that's a massive improvement on the HC. Makes sense as a misfire will pass raw fuel (hydrocarbons) out the exhaust.
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Old Apr 21, 2020 | 06:54 AM
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now that you are inspected, advance the timing until you have 36 at full no vac advance. and reroute vac advance to full manifold vac. and save these timing settings for next year...
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Old Apr 21, 2020 | 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim__H
I can do better than that. I also have a '67 Jag XKE and a couple of weeks ago put the top down and me and the Mrs. took the back way to a local winery hoping to stock up. When we walked in, no tasting but they did have a special case price going, $9.90 a bottle...!! Then the nice lady noticed the Jag and proceeded to tell us about their '69 Vette. So now the plan is when the wine runs out, pop the t-tops and head back down for another case. Here is a photo from a few years ago, the Boxster is gone.

The Jag is beautiful. I spent 2 years doing a 68 series 1.5 for a friend. Nice cars.
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Old Apr 21, 2020 | 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by derekderek
now that you are inspected, advance the timing until you have 36 at full no vac advance. and reroute vac advance to full manifold vac. and save these timing settings for next year...
That's the plan although the guy who sold me the AFR heads says 34 is ideal for them. Vacuum is manifold.
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Old Apr 21, 2020 | 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim__H
That's the plan although the guy who sold me the AFR heads says 34 is ideal for them. Vacuum is manifold.
That's what I'd heard - but maybe I'm wrong.

36 is the standard target for stock heads. Supposedly modern ones take less, but I've already found an article where someone peaked at 37deg on AFR eliminators. The same article recommended 38deg for yours.

The reality is the only way to know for sure is via instrumented testing - dyno is easiest. Timed runs are the next option. Now I'm wondering if I should add a couple degrees to mine!
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Old Apr 21, 2020 | 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Shark Racer
That's what I'd heard - but maybe I'm wrong.

36 is the standard target for stock heads. Supposedly modern ones take less, but I've already found an article where someone peaked at 37deg on AFR eliminators. The same article recommended 38deg for yours.

The reality is the only way to know for sure is via instrumented testing - dyno is easiest. Timed runs are the next option. Now I'm wondering if I should add a couple degrees to mine!
Whether I add much more advance is going to depend on the effect on idle. Right now the idle is about 900 with either 8 or 10 (not sure where I left it) degrees initial plus the ~6* vacuum. I think I can go a little higher but much more than that and it starts slamming when I put it in gear and I can feel a difference in decceleration when I take my foot off the gas. Also with higher advance it chugs a bit when I shut it off. I must admit this timing thing has been a real learning experience for me and I wish I knew then when I bought this dizzy what I know now. Is 22* mechanical typical for the dizzy that are for our SBCs? I did not know what that number was until I read the data sheets that came with it. And now looking back at other options I don't even see the mechanical advance values listed.

But then again I plan to use this car as a daily driver depending on whether I need four seats or space in the back for stuff. Driveability is important and I'm not going to be stoplight racing everyone who comes along. Right now it's running pretty good so I may try tweaking it a bit to see what happens but I'm not really sure I need to extract more power at the expense of driveability.
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Old Apr 21, 2020 | 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim__H
That's the plan although the guy who sold me the AFR heads says 34 is ideal for them. Vacuum is manifold.
smaller better chambers the flame front moves faster. less total advance is desired. some domed big blocks like near 40.
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Old Apr 21, 2020 | 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by derekderek
smaller better chambers the flame front moves faster. less total advance is desired. some domed big blocks like near 40.
We (my engine guy and I) did shave the heads, looking back I am pretty sure we took them down from 76 to 70cc.
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Old Apr 23, 2020 | 03:50 PM
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Nice job getting the car to pass smog!
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Old Apr 23, 2020 | 09:33 PM
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Congratulations!

I’ve heard that they (California Air Resources Board (CARB) the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) and the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) ) are making it harder and harder for older cars to pass smog and that they want 20yo+ cars off the road.

I went for a ‘74 because it is smog exempt. Well, it actually isn’t – it’s merely exempt from biennial testing. In order to remain “legal” on the roads, you must retain the original equipment emission controls or you can be cited by a law enforcement officer if he suspects you’ve tampered with your emissions.

I guess my straight header set up isn’t exactly compliant.

Last edited by JakeLucas; Apr 23, 2020 at 09:35 PM.
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Old Apr 23, 2020 | 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JakeLucas
Congratulations!

I’ve heard that they (California Air Resources Board (CARB) the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) and the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) ) are making it harder and harder for older cars to pass smog and that they want 20yo+ cars off the road.

I went for a ‘74 because it is smog exempt. Well, it actually isn’t – it’s merely exempt from biennial testing. In order to remain “legal” on the roads, you must retain the original equipment emission controls or you can be cited by a law enforcement officer if he suspects you’ve tampered with your emissions.

I guess my straight header set up isn’t exactly compliant.
Right you are Jake.The standards get tighter and tighter so I am told so good move getting a '74. It's been a while but I recall getting a mailing or two from the state offering me money to take the car off the road. I don't recall a dollar amount but I'm sure it wouldn't be anywhere close to what I have into it. I think the cars between 1975 to when they started putting ECUs in are the hardest to keep legal. Heck, I love a good challenge (insert masochist emoji here)
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