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'81, inconsistent spark firing

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Old May 29, 2020 | 09:05 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Mark G
Getting back to the basics for a moment ...I know this might sound stupid, but did you set your base timing with the dist wire unhooked and the rest of the instructions per pg 6D-35 in the manual (that's the pg in my manual)?
Yes, with the 4-pin removed. I set it at 6, then after discussions here up to 8.

Secondly, did you get a chance to put a compression tester on the cylinders to see what it looks like? So we can rule out that? It's unlikely, but always possible a rocker slipped off, or there's a bent push rod (or flat cam lobe). I had a CCC pickup once with a flat cam lobe back in the day which was tricky to figure out.
I have not done a compression test. WOT performance is good- the car easily does 95mph, so that rules out any compression issues.

Do you see fuel squirt out nice and strong from the accelerator pump?
Yes. I rebuilt the carb as part of this process. Not as simple as the Autolit carbs that I can do blindfolded but I assure you that everything is right on.

What was the reason you replaced the distributor? Did this issue occur before you replaced it?
The ECU went out on the PO and he swapped in a junk dizzy with mechanical and vacuum advance. The carb was getting no signal so running full rich, clogged the cat. I took the cat out and now have a true dual exhaust with an X pipe. Replaced the ECU, had the M/C nicely tapping away just last week...

Hang in there ....we'll help you zero in on things. I've driven several CCC carb'd cars to well over 200k miles and they all ran great with few problems (better than old-school carb'd cars). Who knows, the problem may ultimately not have anything to do with the computer or sensors. People tend to out of the chute blame the computer and sensors on these older cars. Sometimes it is, lot of times it isn't. I see that on the Jeep forums all the time.
.
Thanks!
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Old May 29, 2020 | 09:33 AM
  #42  
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Did you adjust the secondary valve wind up? I cannot find you a decent picture.
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Old May 29, 2020 | 09:40 AM
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The secondary air valve is spring loaded. There is a very small allen set screw underneath the left arrow.Back it off and the valve flops around. You turn the screw shown with right arrow till the door just closes, add 3/4 turn, then tighten the set screw.
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Old May 31, 2020 | 09:53 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Big2Bird
The secondary air valve is spring loaded. There is a very small allen set screw underneath the left arrow.Back it off and the valve flops around. You turn the screw shown with right arrow till the door just closes, add 3/4 turn, then tighten the set screw.
Thanks. It's a 5/64 (or 2mm) allen head set screw set vertically. I adjusted it as you recommended. It didn't appear to be out of adjustment.
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Old May 31, 2020 | 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Yadkin
Thanks. It's a 5/64 (or 2mm) allen head set screw set vertically. I adjusted it as you recommended. It didn't appear to be out of adjustment.
Worth checking. It greatly affects acceleration under load..
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Old May 31, 2020 | 10:33 PM
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Try to find a copy of this. Ebay?
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 10:02 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Yadkin
8. P-N switch- off (does not change when in gear) / AC clutch off (does not change when on)
A question as well as a possible suggestion. When you say P-N you are talking about the neutral safety switch correct? If so and the ECM is not seeing this input is it possible that the ECM has different timing curves for park/neutral and on the go conditions? I’m asking the same about the AC clutch operation as well.
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Big2Bird
Worth checking. It greatly affects acceleration under load..
Thanks. My issue is on light to moderate acceleration. Once the secondaries open up there is no problem.
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Big2Bird
Try to find a copy of this. Ebay?
That is a section in my shop manual.
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by kossuth
A question as well as a possible suggestion. When you say P-N you are talking about the neutral safety switch correct? If so and the ECM is not seeing this input is it possible that the ECM has different timing curves for park/neutral and on the go conditions? I’m asking the same about the AC clutch operation as well.
I thought of this as well. I'm not a programmer but I don't see why someone would design a different curve for either of those conditions. There isn't anything in the GM Shop Manual to suggest that there is.
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 11:17 AM
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There should be a base advance built into the module. I believe this "limp mode" timing curve varied between modules. If yours did not change when unplugged, the module may be kaput.
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 01:59 PM
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Try setting the base advance to 12-14 degrees. With everything you have removed and checked it may just need a higher initial timing.
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Old Jun 2, 2020 | 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Gunfighter13
Try setting the base advance to 12-14 degrees. With everything you have removed and checked it may just need a higher initial timing.
I'll try this as soon as I get the battery not charging gremlin fixed. Thanks!
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Old Jun 2, 2020 | 10:00 PM
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Battery not charging may BE your whole issue,

It will run better at 12*, but it should run fine now at 6* or 8*. If you fix the issue now, it will be even better, not masking the issue.
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Old Jun 2, 2020 | 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Big2Bird
There should be a base advance built into the module. I believe this "limp mode" timing curve varied between modules. If yours did not change when unplugged, the module may be kaput.
I found a hidden vacuum leak. Some PO or his mechanic had broken off one of the nipples in a thermostat switch for the vapor canister purge line. A big rubber fitting hid it from me pretty nicely. I had checked this before and I just missed it. I just bypassed it and the car is running much better. Hooked up the timing light and the advance moves with throttle blips as expected: retards then advances.

I took a test run tonight and it ran great, crisp throttle response where I was getting **** before.

That is, until about ten minutes into it and my headlights started to dim. My voltmeter was getting very close to the red zone. With the voltage low all sorts of bad things can happen to a CCC system, so I'll say that this thread has run its course. Problem solved. Onto the next one.

Many thanks to all who contributed.
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Old Jun 2, 2020 | 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Big2Bird
Battery not charging may BE your whole issue,

It will run better at 12*, but it should run fine now at 6* or 8*. If you fix the issue now, it will be even better, not masking the issue.

It's was that, plus a vacuum leak, and probably some weak electrical connections....

Also, something is blowing my 20 amp gage fuse. I've replaced it twice now. It powers the check engine light and that goes to terminal G at the ECU.

Last edited by Yadkin; Jun 2, 2020 at 10:08 PM.
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Old Jun 2, 2020 | 10:06 PM
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These computers are stupid. They just do what they were programmed to do.
it's programming "assumes" all parameters are as new.
If the EGR relay fails, it doesn't know. It thinks it's doing it's thing.
If the AIR bypass valve fails, it doesn't know.
If you remove all the stuff, it "thinks" its still there.
If the car thinks the smog pump is working, it alters the fuel ratio because it believes the reading is diluted. If it's really not, it doesn't know.
IF the voltage is low, well, you get the idea
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To '81, inconsistent spark firing

Old Jun 3, 2020 | 03:09 PM
  #58  
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Looks like my alternator is no good. It was replaced by the PO, who got cute and replaced it with a reman from an old Delco core 1100497-37. I looked it up. It's been superseded 8 times, and the current version is 70 amps. Napa lists a reamn at 37 amps, same as the last two numbers on my part, so that's probably what this one is putting out.

I read the amperage it with my clamp on meter with lights and fan on and it's putting out 34 at idle. 13.6 volts. Raise the RPMs and my amp meter goes to zero- I don't know if that is an issue with my meter.

At idle I turn on the HVAC fan and the dash voltmeter goes below 13. Add in headlights and it goes further down. Add in highs and it's close to the red zone.

Voltage drop from the alternator is 0.3 volts on the positive side and 0.03 on the negative. That's a little high on the positive side but still tolerable.

I fully charged the battery last night. Turn the car off, leave the high beams on for 5 minutes then turn them off, and the voltage is at 12.6. That's not the problem.

Just ordered a new 85 amp from Autozone. They list a 63 amp "without rear defrost". Mine has that. It also has AC, both which require the bigger alternator.

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Old Jun 3, 2020 | 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Big2Bird
...
IF the voltage is low, well, you get the idea
This is the big one. I've learned a lot lately. Not enough voltage can shut down the ECU, the HVAC fan, and who knows what else. Probably burned out a door lock solenoid as well.
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Old Jun 3, 2020 | 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Yadkin
Probably burned out a door lock solenoid as well.
No. The door locks are actually dc motors.
They face up, and collect crap. Pull them out, move them back and forth while blasting with brake/contact cleaner. Lube with light lube like wd or 3in1.
You will see.
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