Side pipe heat 😡
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 250
From: Ocean County NJ
Bring it to work one day and swing by my shop. Ill go for a ride with you and see if I can point you in the right direction. I dont think the ROD 6 speeds have a synchronized reverse gear, so it should be easy to tell if youve got a clutch release problem or a trans problem.
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Bring it to work one day and swing by my shop. Ill go for a ride with you and see if I can point you in the right direction. I dont think the ROD 6 speeds have a synchronized reverse gear, so it should be easy to tell if youve got a clutch release problem or a trans problem.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,165
Likes: 93
From: Bellmore NY
Perhaps there is an issue with the marcel in the disc, causing the disc to "swell", requiring more distance for a clean release. Perhaps your adjustment of the throwout bearing is a little too close to the pressure plate fingers.
Edit....
With the above stated, if adjusting the bearing clearance doesn't work, I would be inclined to replace the clutch in this car. The Richmond transmissions can be finicky in some ways as well (Ive got a 5 speed O.D sitting on the floor in my garage that hasn't been in my car for 2 years), but your issue is going to be clutch related. Check out all the moving parts of the assembly... the fork, clevis pin, basically every connection at the z bar to remove slop. Ultimately, I believe you're issue is within the clutch, and it may not be something you'll be able to prove when you've got it all apart, but at that point might as well just put a new clutch in, and watch it all go away.
Edit....
With the above stated, if adjusting the bearing clearance doesn't work, I would be inclined to replace the clutch in this car. The Richmond transmissions can be finicky in some ways as well (Ive got a 5 speed O.D sitting on the floor in my garage that hasn't been in my car for 2 years), but your issue is going to be clutch related. Check out all the moving parts of the assembly... the fork, clevis pin, basically every connection at the z bar to remove slop. Ultimately, I believe you're issue is within the clutch, and it may not be something you'll be able to prove when you've got it all apart, but at that point might as well just put a new clutch in, and watch it all go away.
Last edited by Big Block Dave; Jul 15, 2020 at 11:28 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,165
Likes: 93
From: Bellmore NY
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,097
Likes: 4,027
From: New Braunfels Texas
fluid was just changed with redline NS per Richmond manual, took a little less then the 2 qts as expected
It’s not a timing problem, car is not really running hot, Just gets super hot in cabin and have this hot shifting problem
When I got the car it had a new 4 core copper radiator with the big tanks, a flex fan with a 180 stat and pretty much stays at that after warm up even in hot temps, except during long idling or when stuck in traffic it may go to 190 but then drops right down, It had a vapor lock problem at the same time I was trying to fix so the two were happening at the same time, which made it a lot of fun, but I fixed the vapor lock problem with a return line regulator, moving the fuel line and Adding a carb heat shield and insulator gasket
it’s not my imagination, it’s fine shifting when cold but when driving for 20-30 mins or so In hot weather it happens and when this happens the pedal catches just above the floorboard And it Also takes more muscle on the shifter too, so I think it might need adjustment due to something expanding or binding
have to get it on the lift again to see what’s going on
appreciate any and all suggestions
It’s not a timing problem, car is not really running hot, Just gets super hot in cabin and have this hot shifting problem
When I got the car it had a new 4 core copper radiator with the big tanks, a flex fan with a 180 stat and pretty much stays at that after warm up even in hot temps, except during long idling or when stuck in traffic it may go to 190 but then drops right down, It had a vapor lock problem at the same time I was trying to fix so the two were happening at the same time, which made it a lot of fun, but I fixed the vapor lock problem with a return line regulator, moving the fuel line and Adding a carb heat shield and insulator gasket
it’s not my imagination, it’s fine shifting when cold but when driving for 20-30 mins or so In hot weather it happens and when this happens the pedal catches just above the floorboard And it Also takes more muscle on the shifter too, so I think it might need adjustment due to something expanding or binding
have to get it on the lift again to see what’s going on
appreciate any and all suggestions
It might be worth getting one of those cheap Infrared guns and shoot the pipes.....then check your timing, move it to a preferred setting if not already there, and see if it changes.
Jebby
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 250
From: Ocean County NJ
Perhaps there is an issue with the marcel in the disc, causing the disc to "swell", requiring more distance for a clean release. Perhaps your adjustment of the throwout bearing is a little too close to the pressure plate fingers.
Edit....
With the above stated, if adjusting the bearing clearance doesn't work, I would be inclined to replace the clutch in this car. The Richmond transmissions can be finicky in some ways as well (Ive got a 5 speed O.D sitting on the floor in my garage that hasn't been in my car for 2 years), but your issue is going to be clutch related. Check out all the moving parts of the assembly... the fork, clevis pin, basically every connection at the z bar to remove slop. Ultimately, I believe you're issue is within the clutch, and it may not be something you'll be able to prove when you've got it all apart, but at that point might as well just put a new clutch in, and watch it all go away.
Edit....
With the above stated, if adjusting the bearing clearance doesn't work, I would be inclined to replace the clutch in this car. The Richmond transmissions can be finicky in some ways as well (Ive got a 5 speed O.D sitting on the floor in my garage that hasn't been in my car for 2 years), but your issue is going to be clutch related. Check out all the moving parts of the assembly... the fork, clevis pin, basically every connection at the z bar to remove slop. Ultimately, I believe you're issue is within the clutch, and it may not be something you'll be able to prove when you've got it all apart, but at that point might as well just put a new clutch in, and watch it all go away.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 11,953
Likes: 4,508
From: Virginia
Only reason I ask is that timing can increase exhaust temps while the coolant temp stays ok....this is especially so if you have a bad *** cooling system that is able to cool a meteor. The water temp will stay steady but the EGT's are high......
It might be worth getting one of those cheap Infrared guns and shoot the pipes.....then check your timing, move it to a preferred setting if not already there, and see if it changes.
Jebby
It might be worth getting one of those cheap Infrared guns and shoot the pipes.....then check your timing, move it to a preferred setting if not already there, and see if it changes.
Jebby
I'll add that IR guns really don't like shooting shiny chrome.
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 250
From: Ocean County NJ
I couldn't agree more. My sidepipes went from burninatingly hot to nearly cool enough to put your hand on after a hard drive with a small change in timing. The coolant temperature didn't change, the radiator did its job in both cases.
I'll add that IR guns really don't like shooting shiny chrome.
I'll add that IR guns really don't like shooting shiny chrome.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 250
From: Ocean County NJ
Checked the timing it was 12 at idle which is about 1000 rpm, could not see what it was at higher Rpm the way the timing tape was put on have to get a buddy, vacuum Advance line to distributor isn’t hooked up, car has a big cam (don’t have specs) with an MSD set up, 11:1 Edelbrock performer heads, rpm air gap manifold and demon carb, and has a high rear ratio. I know with my big block GS which has similar build I had to experiment with the initial advance setting and advance curves so it would start and idle decent and not Break up at high rpm. New to SBC engines Any suggestions here?
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 11,953
Likes: 4,508
From: Virginia
Checked the timing it was 12 at idle which is about 1000 rpm, could not see what it was at higher Rpm the way the timing tape was put on have to get a buddy, vacuum Advance line to distributor isn’t hooked up, car has a big cam (don’t have specs) with an MSD set up, 11:1 Edelbrock performer heads, rpm air gap manifold and demon carb, and has a high rear ratio. I know with my big block GS which has similar build I had to experiment with the initial advance setting and advance curves so it would start and idle decent and not Break up at high rpm. New to SBC engines Any suggestions here?
But do email @lars first, read and understand his directions before you do anything.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 250
From: Ocean County NJ
Probably the same advice we gave you 6 months ago. Email @lars on this Forum, and ask for his timing papers. Initial will be whatever it is. You want 36 mechanical, all in at 2800-3000 RPM. Vacuum should be 12 degrees, and all in at idle vacuum (you may need a different can, or an adjustable can, if you have a big cam and below stock vacuum). Vacuum advance should be connected to manifold vacuum, not ported. Just by doing this, and lowering your idle rpm, I bet you solve your hot floorboard problem.
But do email @lars first, read and understand his directions before you do anything.
But do email @lars first, read and understand his directions before you do anything.
will tweak the settings And see if I can get the idle down but more advance means more heat not less
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 250
From: Ocean County NJ
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 250
From: Ocean County NJ
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 11,953
Likes: 4,508
From: Virginia
More advance will lower temperatures. It sounds like your car was set up for drag racing (4-point harness?). You have a high idle to make up for a lack of vacuum advance. Fix that, and you can lower the idle. Does your MSD setup allow for a vacuum advance? A vacuum gauge will then let you tweak the idle mixture as well. Without knowing what your total mechanical advance is (it should be 36 degrees, at 3000 RPM), I'd hesitate to make timing changes. A digital timing light with an RPM readout makes this a one-person operation, assuming you have some timing tape on the harmonic balancer.
Good luck! You may want to start a new thread on the timing/hot running issue, as it is likely separate from the temperature-dependent clutch issue, and you'll get a fresh set of opinions. I will say again that my side pipe heat issue was solved completely with timing and minor carb adjustments, following the @lars tuning method.
Last edited by Bikespace; Jul 19, 2020 at 07:33 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,232
Likes: 1,232
From: PHX AZ
I have FACTORY side-pipes for 40+ years....no issues. Wrong side-pipes is the real answer here.
You have other clutch issues. If indeed heat is causing this...this is not only 'not normal' but something is maladjusted to the gnats ***.
You have other clutch issues. If indeed heat is causing this...this is not only 'not normal' but something is maladjusted to the gnats ***.