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Rebuilding my front spindles. Apparently it pays to check everything on a 50 year old car (72 C3)
One spindle appears slightly worn with a step where the inner wheel bearing goes.
The step is definately larger in the loaded direction (vertically) and primarily on the lower loaded side as you would expect.
Shaft diameters 1.3745 & 1.3735 on one, and 1.3735 & 1.3725 on other.
1.3750 Timken bearing inner diameter.
After researching this for an hour or more Timken recommends the shaft be .0005 to .0015 smaller than the bearing for a slip fit.
That would be 0.5 to 1.5 thousandths clearance recommended.
I have almost exactly that on the one spindle with no finger lip felt at all.
On the other one I have 1.5 to 2.5 thou clearance.
I am uncomfortable leaving it "as-is" (OCD kicking in maybe?) (Too many hipo engine builds?)
This Loctite 641 product is recommended for such applications.
It is removeable for service use.
It tolerates 300 degrees.
It fills a gap of up to 4.0 thou.
What do you think?
Anyone else with any experience with this?
I read if you run it with too much spindle wear, the bearings will frequently wear them selves loose and need to be frequently readjusted. In one guys case every couple thousand miles. At least until bad things happen!
What do you think of the Loctite repair?
(That's what it says it is made for.)
Or should I try to find an undamaged 42 year old spindle?
Last edited by leigh1322; Mar 13, 2024 at 12:40 PM.
Rebuilding my front spindles. Apparently it pays to check everything on a 50 year old car (72 C3)
One spindle appears slightly worn with a step where the inner wheel bearing goes.
The step is definately larger in the loaded direction (vertically) and primarily on the lower loaded side as you would expect.
Shaft diameters 1.3745 & 1.3735 on one, and 1.3735 & 1.3725 on other.
1.3750 Timken bearing inner diameter.
After researching this for an hour or more Timken recommends the shaft be .0005 to .00015 smaller than the bearing for a slip fit.
That would be 0.5 to 1.5 thousandths clearance recommended.
I have almost exactly that on the one spindle with no finger lip felt at all.
On the other one I have 1.5 to 2.5 thou clearance.
I am uncomfortable leaving it "as-is" (OCD kicking in maybe?) (Too many hipo engine builds?)
This Loctite 641 product is recommended for such applications.
It is removeable for service use.
It tolerates 300 degrees.
It fills a gap of up to 4.0 thou.
What do you think?
Anyone else with any experience with this?
I read if you run it with too much spindle wear, the bearings will frequently wear them selves loose and need to be frequently readjusted. In one guys case every couple thousand miles. At least until bad things happen!
What do you think of the Loctite repair?
(That's what it says it is made for.)
Or should I try to find an undamaged 42 year old spindle?
I would just run it, it's splitting hairs IMO. It will never fail with new bearings properly adjusted.
If there is no evidence of the bearing race spinning on the spindle, I run it too. I don't use the Loctitie. Here is my logic.
1. In my opinion, the spindle OD is there to center the bearing and is not the primary force to restrain it. If that is the case the worst that can happen is your wheel will be and additional.0005" off center
2. Most of the anti-rotation force is going to come from the horizontal load imposed by the taper on the bearing driving it into the seal shoulder or the keyed washer, when the wheel is put on the ground. ( loaded by the weight of then car)
3. As for the loctite 641, it is an adhesive and It will make future disassembly difficult so I would avoid it if I didn't really need it.
What issues do you anticipate if you run it as-is?
Last edited by 2mnyvets; Sep 13, 2020 at 09:29 AM.
Quick fix. If you are that worried about it then grab a sharp punch and go around the bearing surface on the spindle and make a series of small punch marks on it . Careful though , you might have trouble getting the bearing on and have to sand it to fit. I would just run it.
Leave it alone. It will be fine....and a much better quality part than 'new' aftermarket stuff. Don't use any Loctite on it; that bearing race is designed to have a small amount of clearance...which is why the journal under the bearing race is 'frosted' on the surface from some slight movements over many years.
Your inner bearing has been spinning on the spindle, wearing the bottom of the spindle. This is caused by loose bearings.
If the ridge doesn't catch your fingernail, polish it out with some 220 in a shoe-shine motion and put it together and check.
If it catches your nail, well....
With the spindle worn like that, you can set the bearing preload, but the actual "play" that you feel when you grab the wheel at the 6 and 12 o'clock will not be actual bearing clearance, but a combination of bearing clearance, and bearing race movement on the spindle.
If after repeated attempts, and the bearing play is still too much, bearing mount is an option, but I would spring for a new spindle...
If, when you put it together, you are satisfied with the wheel movement, run it. But be alert for changes in the way it steers.
Your inner bearing has been spinning on the spindle, wearing the bottom of the spindle. This is caused by loose bearings.
If the ridge doesn't catch your fingernail, polish it out with some 220 in a shoe-shine motion and put it together and check.
If it catches your nail, well....
With the spindle worn like that, you can set the bearing preload, but the actual "play" that you feel when you grab the wheel at the 6 and 12 o'clock will not be actual bearing clearance, but a combination of bearing clearance, and bearing race movement on the spindle.
If after repeated attempts, and the bearing play is still too much, bearing mount is an option, but I would spring for a new spindle...
If, when you put it together, you are satisfied with the wheel movement, run it. But be alert for changes in the way it steers.
Good luck
Jeff
Yes it definately catches my nail. It is on the bottom only, from a previous dry spinning bearing. It's not too bad, but there is 2.5 thou clearance where it is supposed to be 1.0
So my bearings and rotors will have at least 2.5 thou movement.
What was the rotor spec? Shouldn't it be 1.5 thou or less?
I had that wear scenario on my 65. I found it caused the hub/rotor to rock enough in parking maneuvers to push the pads back and cause long brake pedal travel on the first application after making the maneuvers. I replaced the spindles with good used ones from a C3.
I had that wear scenario on my 65. I found it caused the hub/rotor to rock enough in parking maneuvers to push the pads back and cause long brake pedal travel on the first application after making the maneuvers. I replaced the spindles with good used ones from a C3.
Tom
Thanks Tom.
Yeah I would kind of expect some kind of brake issue to show up with these fixed calipers. Even if it is just leaky caliper seals. That wobbling has to cause some kind of issue....
So talked to my machinist buddy today. Basically he said if I wasn't going to drive it like an every day car not to worry about it.
But he agreed with me that 2.5 thou there will cause about 4 times that at the wheel. So that's over 10 thou. And the wheel bearings need to be adjusted a little loose anyway, so that adds more. But chevy's spec is only .001 to .008 wobble at the tire. So since I will be significantly over that, and maybe double, i'm just gonna replace it. There has got to be some kind of brake issue it would cause, since the calipers cannot move. Besides it's only $75 locally.
A lot of this would be sooo much easier if I just had an opportunity to drive the car before I took it apart, and decide what worked well, and what didn't. But it didn't run well enough for that.
Now I just have to guess and inspect everything! YUK!
Next time I'll know better.....just I just say next time?
Last edited by leigh1322; Sep 14, 2020 at 08:39 PM.
Leigh, would you consider assembling the rotor to the spindle in a vise and measuring the movement? Then you'll know for certain how much movement you have.
I looked up the price of spindles and saw reconditioned ones from $75 (eBay) to $215 (Ecklers). There was no description of what "reconditioned" meant. From past experiences, when I see the words "reconditioned" ,"Remanufactured", or "warranty" I get nervous and wonder what I a getting. .
Last edited by 2mnyvets; Sep 15, 2020 at 05:53 AM.
There is another option I have not seen mentioned yet and that is to have the spindle metal sprayed and re machined but I guess in the land of cheap parts finding another spindle will be easier and probably cheaper (certainly not the case here in NZ). Check carefully the tapered holes in the spindles on any second hand or remanufactured part, it is not unknown for these to become oval if the car has had a hit on a front wheel like a big pothole or side impact in a crash.
Stopped by the local Vette shop on the way home, and picked up another used spindle for $75. Looks great. Trust him. And I could see it and measure it before I took it home. Only 15 min out of the way. He had 50 to chose from! WIN-WIN.
One less thing to worry about.
It was easier to do that than assemble the spindle/rotor/wheel and measure the slop, especially being off the car.
If I would have had to go to E-Bay I might have done it differently.
I have so many experts available within 30 min of here, I'm counting my blessings. I'm in the middle of the heavily populated North-East corridor between Philly and NYC.
I can't imagine trying to do this in some place like...Belgium, England or Australia!!!
I really feel for your guys!
I'm no slouch but I certainly do not have all the expertise I need to do this frame-off all by myself.
Thank all of you for your help!
Last edited by leigh1322; Sep 15, 2020 at 06:35 PM.
I really wish you would reconsider checking the slop, if not now then when you finally install the rotor. Half of the community thinks the spindle is too loose and the other half don't think it is a problem. You have a perfect chance to quantify the effect and it should take you less than an hour. ( really less than 15 minutes if you have a vise, a dial indicator and a rotor with the bearings in it). Now tht you have two, I would like to know the difference between them.
Last edited by 2mnyvets; Sep 16, 2020 at 08:19 AM.
you can restore some of the shaft OD by raising the steel. Strike & dimple the surface with Many dimples from a Hard point center punch.
As point goes in, it also displaces steel & raises a "crater wall. " Similar to a machine shop's "Knurl" which may be another option.
Slightly Worn Spindle feedback requested
