I'll do a few more "keywords" and see what comes up. Thanks for the link you provided. I'll take a moment to read it.
Ignition timing control with Sniper
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 352
Likes: 47
From: Bham, Alabama
Ignition timing control with Sniper
I'm about to install a Sniper and was curious if anyone had installed one without the ignition timing control and then later installed the timing control. If so, did you see improvements? Performance, gas milage, etc? Is it worth the cost to add this additional functionality?
Thanks
Keith
Thanks
Keith
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
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Did you use the search function and read posts similar to this?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...plication.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...plication.html
Race Director
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Is my vette stock?? HAHA
Joined: Oct 2015
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From: Im not allowed to tell you
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
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Holley suggests that you leave it so that you are runnng the normal distrubtor for the leaning phase and then locking it out and using the sniper timing map. Wish I did it that way but I just threw everything at it at once. The problem I have is my timnig doesnt change undeer 2000 rpm. I have yet to find a source to tell me how to correct it. Once i get my motor rebuilt I will spend some time on the timing map and and maybe hood my laptop up to it
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,093
Likes: 4,017
From: New Braunfels Texas
I have heard it could work but never tried it.
Is it a budget thing that keeps you from doing it? Because quite frankly, I would never install EFI without timing control......it just leaves a shitload of capability on the table, and deletes half of the value of having the Sniper to begin with.
I tried to lock out an HEI and use a adjustable **** from Speedway to be able to dial in the reluctor......but it was a disaster, the system didn't like it at all. Dropped the Hyperspark in and phased it while another fella was wiring everything in, in just over an hour R&R it fired right up and ran perfect with my initial settings. The big deal with the timing control is its ability to learn along with the fuel curve. One it is set, poof, you are in the 21st century.....never mess with it again.
Jebby
Is it a budget thing that keeps you from doing it? Because quite frankly, I would never install EFI without timing control......it just leaves a shitload of capability on the table, and deletes half of the value of having the Sniper to begin with.
I tried to lock out an HEI and use a adjustable **** from Speedway to be able to dial in the reluctor......but it was a disaster, the system didn't like it at all. Dropped the Hyperspark in and phased it while another fella was wiring everything in, in just over an hour R&R it fired right up and ran perfect with my initial settings. The big deal with the timing control is its ability to learn along with the fuel curve. One it is set, poof, you are in the 21st century.....never mess with it again.
Jebby
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Burning Brakes
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From: Indianapolis IN
Is my vette stock?? HAHA
Joined: Oct 2015
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From: Im not allowed to tell you
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
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I lost 4 mpg but it might have been how i was driving it........
Racer
Joined: Jul 2018
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From: central Florida
2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
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I installed the sniper as fuel only, then added the timing control a couple months later. I did notice a slightly better idle/drivability. I didn't have any expense other than the lock out kit since I already had an MSD distributor and 6AL. If you haven't already found it, Holley has a forum with some good info. The best I found was here though... https://www.efisystempro.com/efi-pro-hangout This guy Chris knows his stuff and there is LOTS of good info on there about setting up the timing maps. (He recommends downloading a different map altogether for the ignition. I couldn't get the timing right under partial load until I did that)
If I were doing it all over again, I'd still add the timing control. Even if I had to buy the parts. I can't comment about fuel mileage. That's not something I would be brave enough to check.
If I were doing it all over again, I'd still add the timing control. Even if I had to buy the parts. I can't comment about fuel mileage. That's not something I would be brave enough to check.
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,093
Likes: 4,017
From: New Braunfels Texas
I installed the sniper as fuel only, then added the timing control a couple months later. I did notice a slightly better idle/drivability. I didn't have any expense other than the lock out kit since I already had an MSD distributor and 6AL. If you haven't already found it, Holley has a forum with some good info. The best I found was here though... https://www.efisystempro.com/efi-pro-hangout This guy Chris knows his stuff and there is LOTS of good info on there about setting up the timing maps. (He recommends downloading a different map altogether for the ignition. I couldn't get the timing right under partial load until I did that)
If I were doing it all over again, I'd still add the timing control. Even if I had to buy the parts. I can't comment about fuel mileage. That's not something I would be brave enough to check.
If I were doing it all over again, I'd still add the timing control. Even if I had to buy the parts. I can't comment about fuel mileage. That's not something I would be brave enough to check.
Buying from Holley or Big Box is a crap shoot for support....especially Holley.
Jebby
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 352
Likes: 47
From: Bham, Alabama
Thanks everyone. I'm planning to buy from efisystempro, but the budget will only allow the fuel system for now. Down the road I would like to add the ignition, if it there truly is an advantage (which it sounds like there is). I appreciate the input.
Have a great day,
Keith
Have a great day,
Keith
Racer
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 411
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From: central Florida
2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2020 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
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You won't regret it!!!
Take your time with the wiring. Clean connections and good grounds are the key to making these work flawlessly. Make sure you have a good battery as low voltage during cranking will cause a crank/no start.
Bounce me a message if I can help long distance
Take your time with the wiring. Clean connections and good grounds are the key to making these work flawlessly. Make sure you have a good battery as low voltage during cranking will cause a crank/no start.
Bounce me a message if I can help long distance
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: South Western Ontario
EFI System Pro has great info. This page talks about timing.
https://www.efisystempro.com/efi-pro...timing-control
You really must do the advanced timing setup to take proper advantage of the Sniper controlling the timing. The timing table created after entering the basic data points is a complete piece of crap that is simply not worth using.
The Sniper only self tunes the base fuel map. You need to tune in the timing and everything else. That's why anyone who digs in and tunes it can possibly find more drivability, fuel economy and power.
There is no EFI system that self tunes the timing because there is no useful feedback sensor for timing that lets it know it's doing the self tuning it right. OK, there are methods to get feedback, but you sure as hell can't use them long term on a driven vehicle. Manufacturers use these tools on dyno cells.
https://www.efisystempro.com/efi-pro...timing-control
You really must do the advanced timing setup to take proper advantage of the Sniper controlling the timing. The timing table created after entering the basic data points is a complete piece of crap that is simply not worth using.
There is no EFI system that self tunes the timing because there is no useful feedback sensor for timing that lets it know it's doing the self tuning it right. OK, there are methods to get feedback, but you sure as hell can't use them long term on a driven vehicle. Manufacturers use these tools on dyno cells.
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 31
Likes: 45
From: Williamstown, New Jersey
I have a Sniper with timing control and it definitely was a bit of a learning curve, at least for me. I originally had a GM HEI unit in it but decided to move to timing control after the distributor started giving me issues. I'm still experimenting with it but there is definitely a difference in the way the engine performs.
You absolutely have to tune the timing table as the one the Sniper wizard generates is pretty poor and is really only suitable to get your engine running. You basically have to build the timing curve from scratch, and in a sense disregard traditional methods of "setting timing". There is no mechanical or vacuum advance, like a traditional distributor, and you have to factor that into your timing table. That being said, I used the timing articles widely cited on this forum as a guide to what my table should look like.
I would also pickup up the cable to connect your Sniper to a laptop, as the real fine tuning of the ignition system can only be done with the Sniper software.
You absolutely have to tune the timing table as the one the Sniper wizard generates is pretty poor and is really only suitable to get your engine running. You basically have to build the timing curve from scratch, and in a sense disregard traditional methods of "setting timing". There is no mechanical or vacuum advance, like a traditional distributor, and you have to factor that into your timing table. That being said, I used the timing articles widely cited on this forum as a guide to what my table should look like.
I would also pickup up the cable to connect your Sniper to a laptop, as the real fine tuning of the ignition system can only be done with the Sniper software.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 324
Likes: 60
From: Torrance Ca
I installed the Holley Dual Sync with mine, literally the next day Holley came out with the Hyperspark, 1/2 the price and twice as easy to setup. I already installed mine and it was running fine so I kept it. Never a hiccup with my system, highly recommend.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 352
Likes: 47
From: Bham, Alabama
I have a Sniper with timing control and it definitely was a bit of a learning curve, at least for me. I originally had a GM HEI unit in it but decided to move to timing control after the distributor started giving me issues. I'm still experimenting with it but there is definitely a difference in the way the engine performs.
You absolutely have to tune the timing table as the one the Sniper wizard generates is pretty poor and is really only suitable to get your engine running. You basically have to build the timing curve from scratch, and in a sense disregard traditional methods of "setting timing". There is no mechanical or vacuum advance, like a traditional distributor, and you have to factor that into your timing table. That being said, I used the timing articles widely cited on this forum as a guide to what my table should look like.
I would also pickup up the cable to connect your Sniper to a laptop, as the real fine tuning of the ignition system can only be done with the Sniper software.
You absolutely have to tune the timing table as the one the Sniper wizard generates is pretty poor and is really only suitable to get your engine running. You basically have to build the timing curve from scratch, and in a sense disregard traditional methods of "setting timing". There is no mechanical or vacuum advance, like a traditional distributor, and you have to factor that into your timing table. That being said, I used the timing articles widely cited on this forum as a guide to what my table should look like.
I would also pickup up the cable to connect your Sniper to a laptop, as the real fine tuning of the ignition system can only be done with the Sniper software.
I've read that the Sniper wizard doesn't generate a good timing table. I'm planning to purchase my system from EFI System Pro, as I've read great reviews on them. I would expect to need their assistance making sure everything is set up properly, if I go with with the ignition option. Glad to hear that you did experience some difference in engine performance. I'll keep this in mind.
Have a great day,
Keith
1st Gear
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: St. Augustine FL
One of our customers mentioned that we should come over and check out this thread. After reading I thought maybe I could help with any info you guys might need before making a purchase decision.
That's not how it works. The only learning that gets done is the base fuel table. Startup enrichment, acceleration enrichment, coolant temp enrichment, ignition timing, etc does not learn. Anything that is not the base fuel table has to be adjusted manually.
Everyone talking about the wizard generated timing map is correct. It gets the job done, but there is a lot of room for improvement. In all honesty, the fuel map isn't great either. It is always very rich. Our article on timing is a great resource for the people that aren't tuners and need some guidance on proper timing maps.
Absolutely. Using a laptop is the best way to get the fine tuning down. You can do quite a bit with just the touchscreen, but to really dial it in, a laptop is the way to go. That is one reason we offer our Level 3 support with every system purchase. You can send us your data logs and configuration file for us to handle the finer adjustments
This for sure. A massive amount of our tech support questions come from not following the directions and simple things get overlooked. This is the best advice I give people is to take the directions very literally.
That's not how it works. The only learning that gets done is the base fuel table. Startup enrichment, acceleration enrichment, coolant temp enrichment, ignition timing, etc does not learn. Anything that is not the base fuel table has to be adjusted manually.
Everyone talking about the wizard generated timing map is correct. It gets the job done, but there is a lot of room for improvement. In all honesty, the fuel map isn't great either. It is always very rich. Our article on timing is a great resource for the people that aren't tuners and need some guidance on proper timing maps.
Originally Posted by Sunset75
I would also pickup up the cable to connect your Sniper to a laptop, as the real fine tuning of the ignition system can only be done with the Sniper software.
Absolutely. Using a laptop is the best way to get the fine tuning down. You can do quite a bit with just the touchscreen, but to really dial it in, a laptop is the way to go. That is one reason we offer our Level 3 support with every system purchase. You can send us your data logs and configuration file for us to handle the finer adjustments
Originally Posted by jimco84x
Take your time with the wiring. Clean connections and good grounds are the key to making these work flawlessly. Make sure you have a good battery as low voltage during cranking will cause a crank/no start.
This for sure. A massive amount of our tech support questions come from not following the directions and simple things get overlooked. This is the best advice I give people is to take the directions very literally.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 352
Likes: 47
From: Bham, Alabama
One of our customers mentioned that we should come over and check out this thread. After reading I thought maybe I could help with any info you guys might need before making a purchase decision.
That's not how it works. The only learning that gets done is the base fuel table. Startup enrichment, acceleration enrichment, coolant temp enrichment, ignition timing, etc does not learn. Anything that is not the base fuel table has to be adjusted manually.
Everyone talking about the wizard generated timing map is correct. It gets the job done, but there is a lot of room for improvement. In all honesty, the fuel map isn't great either. It is always very rich. Our article on timing is a great resource for the people that aren't tuners and need some guidance on proper timing maps.
Absolutely. Using a laptop is the best way to get the fine tuning down. You can do quite a bit with just the touchscreen, but to really dial it in, a laptop is the way to go. That is one reason we offer our Level 3 support with every system purchase. You can send us your data logs and configuration file for us to handle the finer adjustments
This for sure. A massive amount of our tech support questions come from not following the directions and simple things get overlooked. This is the best advice I give people is to take the directions very literally.
That's not how it works. The only learning that gets done is the base fuel table. Startup enrichment, acceleration enrichment, coolant temp enrichment, ignition timing, etc does not learn. Anything that is not the base fuel table has to be adjusted manually.
Everyone talking about the wizard generated timing map is correct. It gets the job done, but there is a lot of room for improvement. In all honesty, the fuel map isn't great either. It is always very rich. Our article on timing is a great resource for the people that aren't tuners and need some guidance on proper timing maps.
Absolutely. Using a laptop is the best way to get the fine tuning down. You can do quite a bit with just the touchscreen, but to really dial it in, a laptop is the way to go. That is one reason we offer our Level 3 support with every system purchase. You can send us your data logs and configuration file for us to handle the finer adjustments
This for sure. A massive amount of our tech support questions come from not following the directions and simple things get overlooked. This is the best advice I give people is to take the directions very literally.
Keith