Broken lifter? Need Help
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 144
Likes: 17
I don't like X-Treme energy cams for break-in......if this were mine I would do a 280H Magnum Comp or a 292H depending if it was manual or auto......these older grinds break-in well and make good power...they also sound excellent.....they might be a few ticks off of an X-Treme Energy, but nothing you could feel......I run a 292H Magnum in my own 406 custom ground on a 108LSA.....Car Craft tested all of their best selling cams a long time ago......the 292 and the 280 hold their own.....30 year old grinds that work. The 292 was the second best selling cam Comp made in the 90's......the 268H was first.
For break-in...the first and most critical part is to throw Comps "Cam Lube" in the trash and get some Moroso Moly paste or Crane Moly Lube Paste......coat each lobe liberally. Do NOT put **** on the lifters but plain old oil.....do NOT pump them up or do any other bullshit thing that old timers tell you.......drop them in....while dropping them in, make sure they spin in the bore freely......
Valve lash on hydraulic is zero lash, then 1/2 turn.......I use the TDC of each cylinder method. Get it back on TDC #1......install the intake and drop the distributor in with he rotor pointing toward #1 cylinder (best reference position, #1 can technically go anywhere). Line up #1 in the cap by marking it on the distributor base with cap on....then remove, line it up, and reinstall the cap.....now twist it just a bit, about 3/4" counterclockwise....this will be about 10-15 degrees initial.....snug the hold down bolt but not tight. Fill the float bowl however you see fit......I use a flask funnel through the vent tube. Twist the throttle screw in to open the primary blade a bit. Have a timing light hooked up and ready........Make sure all connections are good and fire it......get it to 2200 RPM and let it settle......run for 20-25 minutes varying the RPM from 2000 to 2500.........that's it! Drive it 100 miles and drop the oil. Done.
Jebby
For break-in...the first and most critical part is to throw Comps "Cam Lube" in the trash and get some Moroso Moly paste or Crane Moly Lube Paste......coat each lobe liberally. Do NOT put **** on the lifters but plain old oil.....do NOT pump them up or do any other bullshit thing that old timers tell you.......drop them in....while dropping them in, make sure they spin in the bore freely......
Valve lash on hydraulic is zero lash, then 1/2 turn.......I use the TDC of each cylinder method. Get it back on TDC #1......install the intake and drop the distributor in with he rotor pointing toward #1 cylinder (best reference position, #1 can technically go anywhere). Line up #1 in the cap by marking it on the distributor base with cap on....then remove, line it up, and reinstall the cap.....now twist it just a bit, about 3/4" counterclockwise....this will be about 10-15 degrees initial.....snug the hold down bolt but not tight. Fill the float bowl however you see fit......I use a flask funnel through the vent tube. Twist the throttle screw in to open the primary blade a bit. Have a timing light hooked up and ready........Make sure all connections are good and fire it......get it to 2200 RPM and let it settle......run for 20-25 minutes varying the RPM from 2000 to 2500.........that's it! Drive it 100 miles and drop the oil. Done.
Jebby
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,097
Likes: 4,027
From: New Braunfels Texas
Yes....but the K is a whole kit.....
Don't forget the moly paste.....https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-35000
Jebby
Don't forget the moly paste.....https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-35000
Jebby
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
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From: Cool Northern Michigan
I had no trouble what so ever breaking-in a Comp Extreme Energy cam. I like it better than my former Magnum cam.
They will come with instructions on how to go about the procedure.
Basically: Lots of Zinc & lots of RPMs.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Nov 9, 2021 at 04:39 PM.
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From: Arizona - If you don’t know CFI, STOP proliferating the myths around it...
I ran a 280H Magnum Comp for a number of years and still have it here lying around somewhere. Good cam for what it is and no issues. That was three cams ago though and now I run Bullet Racing cams...for the WIN! 
I would also go with a roller IF possible, and your wallet can take it. To me, it just makes sense to spend a little for for piece of mind with the break-in routine. Fire it up, check for oil pressure and leaks...done. No more Zinc additives or anything like that. That's just me, but my wallet thanks me time and time again for going to a roller. GL and that lifter IS ugly for sure.
I would also go with a roller IF possible, and your wallet can take it. To me, it just makes sense to spend a little for for piece of mind with the break-in routine. Fire it up, check for oil pressure and leaks...done. No more Zinc additives or anything like that. That's just me, but my wallet thanks me time and time again for going to a roller. GL and that lifter IS ugly for sure.
Last edited by Buccaneer; Nov 9, 2021 at 05:20 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
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From: Cool Northern Michigan
Lets be honest here about roller cams.
Its a lot more money. Maybe four times as much. Rollers are not for everyone.
First, a Hyd Flat Tappet cam & lifters runs about $200.
A roller cam runs about $900 when all is said a done.
You will or may need the following for roller:
Timing Cover with cam button set-up, must.
Different distributor gear, maybe.
Sometimes different fuel pump push rod.
Shorter push rods, MUST.
And you should still add some break-in Zinc regardless of type of lifter.
Its a lot more money. Maybe four times as much. Rollers are not for everyone.
First, a Hyd Flat Tappet cam & lifters runs about $200.
A roller cam runs about $900 when all is said a done.
You will or may need the following for roller:
Timing Cover with cam button set-up, must.
Different distributor gear, maybe.
Sometimes different fuel pump push rod.
Shorter push rods, MUST.
And you should still add some break-in Zinc regardless of type of lifter.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Nov 10, 2021 at 08:17 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,532
Likes: 1,185
From: Arizona - If you don’t know CFI, STOP proliferating the myths around it...
Lets be honest here about roller cams.
First, a Hyd Flat Tappet cam & lifters runs about $200.
A roller cam runs about $900 when all is said a done.
You will or may need the following for roller:
Timing Cover with cam button set-up, must.
Different distributor gear, maybe.
Sometimes different fuel pump push rod.
Shorter push rods, MUST.
And you should still add some break-in Zinc regardless of type of lifter.
First, a Hyd Flat Tappet cam & lifters runs about $200.
A roller cam runs about $900 when all is said a done.
You will or may need the following for roller:
Timing Cover with cam button set-up, must.
Different distributor gear, maybe.
Sometimes different fuel pump push rod.
Shorter push rods, MUST.
And you should still add some break-in Zinc regardless of type of lifter.
I just think that it just makes good sense down the road and you do not need to add anything to your oil. I think it's cheap insurance, but some will argue that. I guess you could spend another $500 or when you screw up the brerak-in process on a flat tappet, you can spend another $3-5K on another rebuild if it's pretty bad after wiping a cam and destroys a motor. Not saying that it will, but it is possible and surely can. Like the old trans commercial in the late 70/80s went..."You can pay me now, or you can pay me later". The choice is yours to make. To coin a phrase, are you feeling lucky punk? Are ya?
This is just my opinion and I'm sure others will vary.
Last edited by Buccaneer; Nov 9, 2021 at 08:13 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 44,677
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From: Huntsville AL
I'm in the club of never having a flat tappet cam go south on me during break in and have only experienced a wiped lobe on a couple engines back in the 70's when I worked in the family auto repair business. I have wrenched on Chevy engines my whole life and this cam business of flat tappets are bad and rollers are good is just personal choice IMO. Assemble the engine correctly and do the proper break in and everything will be fine using a flat tappet cam. Heed what Jebby said on assembly and break in.
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Imagine for a moment, That the 700 hundred dollar extra for a roller was 2,100.
And think about the millions of flat tappet cam engines running all over the world.
I am on the other side of the planet. I just paid a little over 300 hundred dollars for a couple shafts that would cost you in the states 55 bucks.
It's all relevent. to one. 700 bucks is very little. To the next. it puts it in the impossible department.
Not certain why so many on here put **** on flat tappet cams when that's exactly what ours cars came with!
And think about the millions of flat tappet cam engines running all over the world.
I am on the other side of the planet. I just paid a little over 300 hundred dollars for a couple shafts that would cost you in the states 55 bucks.
It's all relevent. to one. 700 bucks is very little. To the next. it puts it in the impossible department.
Not certain why so many on here put **** on flat tappet cams when that's exactly what ours cars came with!
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Joined: May 2007
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From: North tonawanda NY
I bit the bullet and spent the $500 for a retro roller cam upgrade myself. It does not need to cost a fortune to upgrade. The cams are about $300 (I went with a comp cam this time) and the lifter can be bought here, (when in stock) for about $120 for a complete set https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...=7942748&jsn=3 and no they are not the same as the cheaper ones sold on amazon and ebay which are really poor quality. I used Howards pushrods which were about $45 shipped and the nylon cam button was like $14, bronzed tipped fuel rod was about $20.
Ive read and watched far too many testimonials that the lifters and flat tappet cams being sold today have higher failure rates. while this does not apply to all of them, I do realize theres only a hand full of manufacturers making this old stuff for a large number of companies who rebrand them and that makes the possibility of a quality control issue all that much more possible. And trying to investigate who makes what can be exhausting with all the shell companies and rebranding going on.
Ive read and watched far too many testimonials that the lifters and flat tappet cams being sold today have higher failure rates. while this does not apply to all of them, I do realize theres only a hand full of manufacturers making this old stuff for a large number of companies who rebrand them and that makes the possibility of a quality control issue all that much more possible. And trying to investigate who makes what can be exhausting with all the shell companies and rebranding going on.
Last edited by augiedoggy; Nov 10, 2021 at 09:36 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,028
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From: North tonawanda NY
Imagine for a moment, That the 700 hundred dollar extra for a roller was 2,100.
And think about the millions of flat tappet cam engines running all over the world.
I am on the other side of the planet. I just paid a little over 300 hundred dollars for a couple shafts that would cost you in the states 55 bucks.
It's all relevent. to one. 700 bucks is very little. To the next. it puts it in the impossible department.
Not certain why so many on here put **** on flat tappet cams when that's exactly what ours cars came with!
And think about the millions of flat tappet cam engines running all over the world.
I am on the other side of the planet. I just paid a little over 300 hundred dollars for a couple shafts that would cost you in the states 55 bucks.
It's all relevent. to one. 700 bucks is very little. To the next. it puts it in the impossible department.
Not certain why so many on here put **** on flat tappet cams when that's exactly what ours cars came with!
I had no issues with my lunati/comp/crane (same owners now) voodoo flat tappet cam (which I had been told was actually ground by Howards) but upgraded for the extra 20-30hp the math told me I could gain by going to a more efficient roller cam. For me it was very noticeable. But I also did other radical upgrades that some consider foolish like upgrade to electric fans and an aluminum radiator. and I'm swapping in an overdrive transmission which surely has no benefit either since our cars didnt come with it 50 years ago...
And many **** on and try to improve on the low power figures these cars often rolled off the line with too. When you clock in the dash quits (which most have) do you have it rebuilt in stock form or do most replace them with a more reliable electric quartz clock? Sometimes it just makes more sense to upgrade. Im all for if it aint broke dont fix it but nothing wrong with avoiding problems and improving when replacing things for other reasons either.
Last edited by augiedoggy; Nov 10, 2021 at 10:03 AM.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2021
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Back when C3 sbc was current, their OE springs were comparatively weak at about 80 lbs on seat and All oils had plenty of zinc-phosphorus and few even thought of it..
Today's different. Only select oils have adequate zinc-phosphorus and most folks are installing heavier springs.
The new auto manufacturers introduced OE production roller lifters/followers precisely Because of mandated reduction/elimination of zinc-phosphorus (it ruins mandated catalytic convertors).
FWIW, Harley introduced OE production roller lifters long before just about anyone here could drive..
Today's different. Only select oils have adequate zinc-phosphorus and most folks are installing heavier springs.
The new auto manufacturers introduced OE production roller lifters/followers precisely Because of mandated reduction/elimination of zinc-phosphorus (it ruins mandated catalytic convertors).
FWIW, Harley introduced OE production roller lifters long before just about anyone here could drive..
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,028
Likes: 1,120
From: North tonawanda NY
Lets be honest here about roller cams.
Its a lot more money. Maybe four times as much. Rollers are not for everyone.
First, a Hyd Flat Tappet cam & lifters runs about $200.
A roller cam runs about $900 when all is said a done.
You will or may need the following for roller:
Timing Cover with cam button set-up, must.
Different distributor gear, maybe.
Sometimes different fuel pump push rod.
Shorter push rods, MUST.
And you should still add some break-in Zinc regardless of type of lifter.
Its a lot more money. Maybe four times as much. Rollers are not for everyone.
First, a Hyd Flat Tappet cam & lifters runs about $200.
A roller cam runs about $900 when all is said a done.
You will or may need the following for roller:
Timing Cover with cam button set-up, must.
Different distributor gear, maybe.
Sometimes different fuel pump push rod.
Shorter push rods, MUST.
And you should still add some break-in Zinc regardless of type of lifter.
But since we are trying to be honest here,
When building an engine Most of these motors will already have the timing chain and distributors changed as im betting was the case with this 383. Plus many retro roller cams sold now work with stock distributor gears. Cam buttons and even pushrods for a mild engine street engine are cheap. and if the engine has aftermarket heads chances are the pushrods and such needed to be replaced anyway. everyones situation is different but typically the cost difference should not be anywere near $900 between the 2... for me the difference was about $260 and I save a little more each time I change the oil since I do not need to continue to add ZDDP.
Now its true I used cheaper lifters made in Taiwan that folks will assume could fail.... but the OP has already had "name brand" lifters and cam fails so....
Last edited by augiedoggy; Nov 10, 2021 at 10:10 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2021
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Fellas, I’m gonna a be honest. I have no idea what the difference between a roller and a flat tappet cam is. All I know is you can’t mix their ****. In fact I didn’t even know how to take a cam out or pull a distributor until the night where I was taking it apart. So if you guys can tell me the difference between the two in simpler terms that would be appreciated. 
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Fellas, I’m gonna a be honest. I have no idea what the difference between a roller and a flat tappet cam is. All I know is you can’t mix their ****. In fact I didn’t even know how to take a cam out or pull a distributor until the night where I was taking it apart. So if you guys can tell me the difference between the two in simpler terms that would be appreciated.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 144
Likes: 17
Does that mean like it would be the same lift as say the 305H mag at .525 and 253 duration or something like that where as the same roller cam would have the same .525 lift but a 260 or so duration? Or like how is the more lift better?
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 53,648
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From: Southern Cal Ca
St. Jude Donor '22
basically 2 benefits of roller vs flat
1, the roller can have more rapid opening and closing of a valve.
2, the roller lifter "rolls" on the cam and the flat tappet "slides" on the cam.
1, the roller can have more rapid opening and closing of a valve.
2, the roller lifter "rolls" on the cam and the flat tappet "slides" on the cam.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 719
Likes: 156
I bit the bullet and spent the $500 for a retro roller cam upgrade myself. It does not need to cost a fortune to upgrade. The cams are about $300 (I went with a comp cam this time) and the lifter can be bought here, (when in stock) for about $120 for a complete set https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...=7942748&jsn=3 and no they are not the same as the cheaper ones sold on amazon and ebay which are really poor quality. I used Howards pushrods which were about $45 shipped and the nylon cam button was like $14, bronzed tipped fuel rod was about $20.
Ive read and watched far too many testimonials that the lifters and flat tappet cams being sold today have higher failure rates. while this does not apply to all of them, I do realize theres only a hand full of manufacturers making this old stuff for a large number of companies who rebrand them and that makes the possibility of a quality control issue all that much more possible. And trying to investigate who makes what can be exhausting with all the shell companies and rebranding going on.
Ive read and watched far too many testimonials that the lifters and flat tappet cams being sold today have higher failure rates. while this does not apply to all of them, I do realize theres only a hand full of manufacturers making this old stuff for a large number of companies who rebrand them and that makes the possibility of a quality control issue all that much more possible. And trying to investigate who makes what can be exhausting with all the shell companies and rebranding going on.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,028
Likes: 1,120
From: North tonawanda NY
Those lifters have been sold by many for $400 or more all along... CarID for example was selling them for over $120 for each lifter when I bought mine from Rock auto. I did find the exact same ones from a seller on ebay too but chose to get them from Rock at the time.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,028
Likes: 1,120
From: North tonawanda NY
Fellas, I’m gonna a be honest. I have no idea what the difference between a roller and a flat tappet cam is. All I know is you can’t mix their ****. In fact I didn’t even know how to take a cam out or pull a distributor until the night where I was taking it apart. So if you guys can tell me the difference between the two in simpler terms that would be appreciated.
the lobes on the roller cam allow slightly more air and fuel to be packing in and removed from the chamber on each combustion cycle which equals a more efficient engine with more power.. The gains alone arent huge, but along with the reliability aspect they were enough for me to make the change.
Last edited by augiedoggy; Nov 10, 2021 at 10:31 AM.