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Not sure what I'm up against, but replaced an electronic ignition with a points/condenser ignition.
Replaced the EI module with new Echlin CS786 points, RR175 condenser, and LW72 primary lead wire. Primary lead wire and condenser wire are connected to terminal on points.. Primary lead wire also connected to negative terminal on coil.. Replaced distributor cap and rotor with MDS 8442.
Timing mark on balancer set at 0-TDC on cylinder 1. Points gap set at .019 on high point of cam on points block. Double checked spark plug wires for proper firing order at distributor.
Tested for and have spark at plug #1, but otherwise won't ignite. Carb recently (and reliably!) rebuilt. Engine ran after carb installation and before EI to Points change.
Thoughts or suggestions on what I am missing. Appreciate your advice.
Not sure what I'm up against, but replaced an electronic ignition with a points/condenser ignition.
Replaced the EI module with new Echlin CS786 points, RR175 condenser, and LW72 primary lead wire. Primary lead wire and condenser wire are connected to terminal on points.. Primary lead wire also connected to negative terminal on coil.. Replaced distributor cap and rotor with MDS 8442.
Timing mark on balancer set at 0-TDC on cylinder 1. Points gap set at .019 on high point of cam on points block. Double checked spark plug wires for proper firing order at distributor.
Tested for and have spark at plug #1, but otherwise won't ignite. Carb recently (and reliably!) rebuilt. Engine ran after carb installation and before EI to Points change.
Thoughts or suggestions on what I am missing. Appreciate your advice.
Check your wiring. The distributor cars had a resistor wire (I believe its either a braided red or braided red with white stripe) that came off the fuse block that limited the amperage the ignition system could draw. For additional punch there is a non resistor wire (I think braided yellow) that comes off the starter solenoid that feeds non resisted power to the ignition to help fire things off when cranking. Make sure this is all correct first. Also make sure you have the correct coil.
Thanks for the feedback, kossuth! Will look at coil wires tomorrow. There are two wires, one of which is red, and I think a capacitor, connected to the positive terminal on the coil. Coil is believed to be original to the car from appearance and worked fine when ignition was electronic.
Thanks for the feedback, kossuth! Will look at coil wires tomorrow. There are two wires, one of which is red, and I think a capacitor, connected to the positive terminal on the coil. Coil is believed to be original to the car from appearance and worked fine when ignition was electronic.
The wire from the starter solenoid to the coil provides a full 12v when the key is turned forward to start. The other is the resistive wire that gives it juice to run the rest of the time, you might read 9v or so on a digital multimeter.
Make sure you’re on the compression stroke when you bring it to tdc. Easy to check by pulling the driver side valve cover. Also note the orientation of the rotor tab and exactly where it points so you’re not off a tooth. I just use the flap on the box to gap the points & set dwell after it fires. Blasphemous I know.
I don’t have his address handy but forum member Lars will give you a paper he wrote that’s fantastic and will tell you exactly how to stab in that distributor. Zero might not be ideal and he explains why. Got me squared away. There are many versions online so ask him direct. His ears probably ring all day from so many of us invoking his name.
From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
Because I suggested it.
Aldo -
Are you using my "How to Install Your Distributor" tech paper? In case you don't have it, I'm e-mailing it to you right now. If you follow the directions in the papers, your engine will run provided you have power to the system.
Lars
Tune-up was called for after carb rebuild by Lars. Went to set dwell and there's no set screw!!! Decided to go back to old school and fine tuning the various aspects. Of course, one problem leads to another. SMH All good, though.
From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
Originally Posted by SH-60B
Nice going.
Yeah..? If you think that's "nice going," you should see what happens if you pull up here to my workshop in a car that's equipped with one of those POS aftermarket "TI"/"electronic"/"UniLite"/"PerTronix" conversions in it: It gets yanked out of your distributor and I throw it from the door of the workshop all the way out to the main road in the hopes that the garbage truck will run over it. I then install a good quality set of points with a good tune on the distributor and actually make the car run well.
Originally Posted by Aldo J
Sent you a thank you email for the paper. Will be using it now. Many thanks!
Just saw it. You're quite welcome. Let me know if you have any issues.
Lars
Thanks for the feedback, kossuth! Will look at coil wires tomorrow. There are two wires, one of which is red, and I think a capacitor, connected to the positive terminal on the coil. Coil is believed to be original to the car from appearance and worked fine when ignition was electronic.
Don’t assume that. There are a bunch of different coil types out there and many look alike. The most common are your Internally resisted or externally resisted round can type are the two common types you’ll see on vehicles of this vintage. If you have a resistor wire feeding your coil and you also have a internally resisted coil you’re basically stepping the coil down to 6 volts which it will have a hard time firing. Confirm what you have installed. If all is AOK part number wise I wonder if you have a shorted winding in the coil.
Yeah..? If you think that's "nice going," you should see what happens if you pull up here to my workshop in a car that's equipped with one of those POS aftermarket "TI"/"electronic"/"UniLite"/"PerTronix" conversions in it: It gets yanked out of your distributor and I throw it from the door of the workshop all the way out to the main road in the hopes that the garbage truck will run over it. I then install a good quality set of points with a good tune on the distributor and actually make the car run well.
Just saw it. You're quite welcome. Let me know if you have any issues.
Lars
Glad to see guys like Lars still believing in the good old points distributors. I have a carbed 84 C4 and a 470" 65 Gto both with good old rebuilt and recurved points distributors. I had Jeff at advanceddistributors.com in Minnesota where I live do my points distributors! Rock on!!
Don’t assume that. There are a bunch of different coil types out there and many look alike. The most common are your Internally resisted or externally resisted round can type are the two common types you’ll see on vehicles of this vintage. If you have a resistor wire feeding your coil and you also have a internally resisted coil you’re basically stepping the coil down to 6 volts which it will have a hard time firing. Confirm what you have installed. If all is AOK part number wise I wonder if you have a shorted winding in the coil.
kossuth,
I think you've identified the issue! There is the resistor in the distributor and another connected to the coil. With the previously installed EI, there was only the one resistor on the coil. First chance this weekend, will start there and move on to Lars' distributor installation procedure.
Many thanks for your thoughts. Will be nice to get it on the road again!
Regards,
Aldo
From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
Aldo -
There are no resistors anywhere. There is a radio suppression capacitor attached to the coil "+" side, and inside the distributor there is a capacitor to prevent arcing across the points when they open. The radio suppression capacitor is not required for ignition system operation, but the capacitor inside the distributor is required for operation. I think I sent you the part number for it: RR175. The setup should look like this:
Aldo -
There are no resistors anywhere. There is a radio suppression capacitor attached to the coil "+" side, and inside the distributor there is a capacitor to prevent arcing across the points when they open. The radio suppression capacitor is not required for ignition system operation, but the capacitor inside the distributor is required for operation. I think I sent you the part number for it: RR175. The setup should look like this:
Lars
Thanks for the clarification on the roles of the two capacitors. My ignorance was showing when I called them resistors. My distributor set-up mirrors the picture you provided.
Distributor Issue - 69 350/350
