superdave269

I actually made a priming tool many years ago. I made one end fit into the rod on the end of the oil pump and the other end I put into a drill and reved it up. I'm sure back then the drill had a cord and not batteries.

Purple92

Let's take a step back here... We were talking about cutting a head IF it was warped. The idea was to check to see if the head was warped or not. Not having ever seen your motor - I'd bet the odds that the head is warped are something on the order of 33% (Cast iron heads are NOT that likely to warp).

But - in my opinion (and everyone has an opinion) - while cutting one head is not ideal - a lot depends on how much the head needs to be cut to get it back to flat. If it's 0.005" - I'd say it's fine not bothering to touch the other head. (GM Production tolerances are probably somewhere around that). As more needs to be cut - the need to cut the other head goes up. If this were a race engine - you wouldn't think of cutting just one head - but this is a street engine, not a race engine...

I'd say that the odds that you burned a valve are lower than you warping a head - typically burning a valve involves the valve seeing very high temps - which typically comes from high load - for a decent period of time. That's not what you described happening. The valve cools through the valve head being on the seat, and through the stem being in contact with the valve guide (the intake valve is also cooled by the incoming air-fuel charge). The difference between the valve seeing a 200 degree surface and a 240 degree surface isn't really very much when you consider that the exhaust gas flowing over the exhaust valve head is typically over 1,000 degrees.

Maybe call another engine shop and see if they will give you a price to just check the heads (primarily straightness), and a price to flat mill the head if in fact it is warped. Forget the valve seat work - if you're going to do that - I'd just go for new aluminum heads and call it a day.

augiedoggy

Actually I mentioned above you CAN go aluminum and have better flow and performance for much less if you want to (in my case about $700 without the roller rockers and I used good valves and comp dual springs and hardware). I think you will only find advice to do otherwise from folks with no actual first hand experience with this at all but usually you will get comments like "I had a friend of a friend that used those cheap chinese procomps back it the 90s and had nothing but issues" to support bias and justify opinions political or otherwise on these completely different heads that even AFR was impressed with enough to rebrand and sell with their name on them for a few years now. You are not building a race car here and despite what you may read on forums there is a lot of perfectly fine in between options from stock to higher end performance parts and the one size fits all overkill approach does not always have merit for everyones situation and needs.

OldCarBum

If it was my engine and I had to pull the intake, exhaust, accessories and a head, I wouldn’t mess around doing just one side.
I would pull both heads because you have already disassembled everything that needs to come off to do just one side.
I would also want to see the condition of the other head gasket and make sure the other bank of cylinders were in good shape.
At this point you’ve spent not one penny more.
Take both heads to the machine shop and have both heads checked.
Get a quote for any machine work necessary.
The machine shop may check the heads and tell you everything is good.
At that point slap them back on and move on down the road.
If either head is warped and needs machining, then assess the overall cost of machining the heads or buying a set of aluminum.
To be totally honest, I wouldn’t purchase any new aluminum or cast iron head and just install it, until they were checked for straightness anyway.
That includes any street or racing engine.
The machine shop I deal with showed me that even the best heads on the market aren’t always perfect.

Years ago, I owned a Chevy 1 ton dually, 454, I bought new and drove for 12 years.
One day, on my way home from work a head gasket blew.
I was working revolving 12 hr shifts and didn’t have the time to do the repair on my own.
The local Chevy dealership repaired the head gasket.
When I got home after picking up my truck I found the new oil looked like a milk shake so I called the dealership.
They towed it back to the shop and discovered the other head gasket was also leaking and I paid them twice to do the same work over again.
Do it once and do it right.

derekderek

the cheap chinesium heads are still suffering from a bad rap when they first hit the scene. these days the castings are good. they flow well. they seal. chinese valves? Don't You Effing Dare!!! buy bare castings and Ferrea or Manley valves. comp or PAC or other good springs. and keepers to match the springs and locks to match the keepers. springs less crucial than valves. you will need new pushrods and head bolts. and the thicker gaskets are less of an issue as you will be going to a smaller chamber. on the subject of compression it nets you less than you think. a point of compression is worth 4% from 7 to 8. 3% 9 to 10. about 2% a point from 11 on up. so a half point will cost you 2% roughly. 2% is about 4 hp. you will not feel 4 hp unless you are tryna get that last couple of hundredths of et. and a thicker composition gasket will cover for a world of sins in flawed head or block decks.

Mrvettenick

Sorry. I wouldn't buy anything from China. The attraction of the lower price is no trade off for US made.

derekderek

there ain't no US made head castings any more.

Mrvettenick

Brodix, AFR, and Edelbrock are made in the US. Those are the first 3 that come to my mind.

superdave269

I sure wish this thread wasn't about my car as I am enjoying reading and learning from all the helpful replies.

I am telling myself to take a step back and take a deep breath. At this point I think I need to finish the paint repair at the shop then have it towed to my house where I can take off both heads and see what I am actually dealing with.

All the post regarding aluminum heads have been very helpful.
I had assumed they use different heads bolts. I kind of remember they use a thicker head gasket. I don't remember any thing about different push rods. So I would of been in trouble not knowing that.
Do I need to change anything else if I go with these heads?

So plan B at this time is IF I go with after market heads I am thinking Flotek bare castings with Dart valve parts kit. Unless of course you guys tell me the Darts part kit is junk.

Below are the parts for plan B. Are they OK in your opinion?

FLOTEK 180cc Small Block Chevy Cylinder Heads 101-500

Dart Head Parts Kits DRT-28111000

augiedoggy

I hate that these conversations always seem to go political but I guess since I do buy both US and chinese made stuff I have the advantage here of having the experience with both and the knowledge that personal feelings and patriotism aside just because its made in the US doesnt necessarily make it better these days.. and It seems theres no issues with US jobs anymore as there are staffing shortages everywhere now so few want the jobs.

Mrvettenick

I think you need to go back and review what you said. Unless you have documented proof, it's your opinion. And the job situation/shortages is due to people NOT wanting to work.

augiedoggy

It seems with most products its a shell game these days...Add an american brand name and higher prices to a foreign made product and few question it. But buy something sold direct with honest advertising without the markups and everyone jumps all over you for it. sure there are american made options for multiple times the cost... and some of those arent even as good performance wise.. look at the edelbrock heads. Take away the marketing and they are nothing special if you buy those heads vs the chinese casting in question with the goal of the best performance you have bought the wrong heads.. You likely bought them because of their good job marketing..

And AFR heads are so pricey AFR themselves sell the same chinese casting as the economic alternative to their higher end heads which says something in itself, That they cannot find an american cast head that they can sell competitively and have the performance of these castings for reasons good or bad.. So instead AFR indirectly ripped off darts Platnium series heads by selling these chinese clones as AFR heads but people dont talk about that here much because they are a great american head company.. The truth is this stuff happens with everything and its how products often evolve.

augiedoggy

I have a business of my own and have been actively looking for more employees myself with no interest for a few months now. 3 years ago when looking for employees for the same 2 positions I was overwhelmed with interest and resumes... Also the local auto repair shop around the corner from my house that my girlfriend uses for basic maintenance and oil changes has been in business since the 50s and is actually temporarily closed due to staffing shortages. this is an all too common scenario these days... If its not due to the lack of people interested in taking these jobs than what exactly do you think it IS from?

My point is there's no shortage of available jobs these days, just people interested in doing those jobs. If you have another reasonable explanation id love to hear it?
Right now many American business are functioning with severe handicaps and subpar employees which result in subpar service and products... Have you read about the fiasco with american reconditioned brake calipers right now? if there was ever a low point in american made quality Id venture to guess now would likely be it. There is a nice restaurant in town where I know a server that works there.. She told me prior to covid they could serve close to 500 dinners on a friday night and now with the employees they have they are lucky to get 200 out of the kitchen and even then the quality of the meal is not the same.

Lets compare intake manifolds for example... You hear on the forums about how the chinese intakes are such poorly casted intakes yet the majority of different american sellers and brands like weiand, jegs and summit and the like are now selling these imported intakes as their own (with a hefty markup of course)... Meanwhile if you go to summit or amazons review pages for the Edelbrock intakes you will find dozens of complaints about poorly cast manifold with irregular ports or ports that dont even line up?.. Personally im all for promoting and purchasing the best product in the budget I have deemed reasonable for myself. There are better american made heads out there they just cost far more money and when a person is weighing the possibility of keeping thier terrible performing stock heads vs going aftermarket, the more economically priced heads with great performance are a good option to consider unless a person has objections for other reasons (which is fine). But lets not pretend those reasons are performance or quality related without any evidence here and mislead others.)

Mrvettenick

So, in 3 years the whole scenario changed. Why, extended unemployment, other payments from the gov't. Listen to the experts. They're saying that people don't want to work. It's not that there's other options. [

superdave269

Sorry guys I wasn't trying to start a political debate.

I actually used to worry about our country outsourcing so many jobs. I lost sleep years ago worrying what would my children and grandchild do to make a living since even the steel mills are closed down and the manufacturing jobs are less and less. As a union tradesman we used to see multiple jobs, we would build the plant and then retool from time to time,. Now we build warehouse to hold important goods We joke the our area of the USA is no longer manufacturing but research & development. We joke but it's not funny just an observation. I no longer get baited into the conversations about foreign cars. I have never owned a foreign car, I even gave my dad crap for having a union sticker on his foreign car many years ago Sadly today the parts of domestic cars are foreign made not to mention the salesman is one of us. So I don't have the answers on this topic

My youngest son is a scientist so he will be OK but the parent company is foreign owned. The world is upside down these days. I honestly feel everything that I learned as youngster is no longer the hard fast rule. Heck bad behavior is not only accepted but often encouraged and rewarded today in my humble opinion.

Anyone know anything about the Dart head kit?

augiedoggy

But there is no "extended unemployment" or other covid related payments from the government anymore... Those covid related programs enabled under the Trump administration ended quite awhile ago including the rental protections.

And your making my point for me... The US doesnt not have thousands of americans suffering right now because they lost thier job to global manufacturing... In fact their are more available jobs than people who want to do them and that was my point. our economy is a mess and its not because I bought a product from overseas vs not buying anything because I cant justify upgrading my heads otherwise.

Mrvettenick

If everything has been shut down, or limited, where exactly did these other jobs come from? The job market is the way it is now because people left the work force due to vacs requirements, masks, early retirement because of all of the restrictions, and those that wanted to work from home. This is not good, because many companies will go off shore, and the job market will disappear. It's already started. Good discussion. I hope things work out for you and your business.

augiedoggy

The most american modern vehicle I ever owned was a 2007 honda ridgeline, Which if you look it up was the most american truck sold in 2007. (it had the same honda drivetrain as the Saturn Vue) ... I now own a Ram pickup which is a company currently owned by the french, my drivetrain is made of an italian diesel engine (designed by GM) and a german transmission... ive recently been told the newer gas engines in the rams are made by bmw.. Like I said, its all a shell game...

Living in Tonawanda where the new vette engines are assembled I can tell you some stories..GM like most companies with an engineering dept in the area were customers of mine until they would not let me on the property one day to repair a (foriegn made) machine. The security gaurd ignored me at the gate and when I asked why, he told me he couldnt let me on premises with that non union Toyota POS... When I explained my company car was american made he said they dont care what country its from, only if its UAW made... and thats when I realized how pathetic the politics of it all is. EVERYONE is a hypocrite in some way looking to twist the angle to their benefit for $$.. He told me I was fine going home and returning with my then mexican made dodge ram and getting in that day even though I actually got my c4 vette at the time... That was the last time I went there after servicing thier equipment for 20 years. They had to pay to bring someone in from out of state after that and im sure the costs just get passed on to the consumer. All because my employer switched up from Canadian made ford vans to american made toyota camrys.

and that 2007 honda? I bought it from a GM employee...

The dart head kit is likely comprised of mostly competition products components as was the Dart iron eagle heads I had that I replaced with the aluminum heads. the parts have dart part numbers but they were all just rebranded and some like the guide plates were stamped as competition products. not sure who makes the valves they use... I used Gatorman valves myself which are not very common as they are more of a lifter company.

augiedoggy

My other career as a field engineer has me traveling all over the country and occasionally internationally and I often get an idea of the situations at various customers sites. I can tell you while there were a lot of layoffs 2 years ago due to covid, the amount of people that either quit or lost their jobs due to refusal to get vacinated or wear a mask is grossly over exaggerated as propoganda and many of them were in the medical field which I find ironic as its like an atheist working in the church in some ways.. The whole thing could have been handled better thats for sure.

A lot of people chose to take early retirements and exit the job market early (especially teachers) but right now manufacturing and production as well as many other fields are mainly being held back by the fact that theres simply not enough willing employees. I'm sure the reality of it is a bit more complicated but going what I was always led to believe about economics, you would think people and businesses would be thriving right now instead of the opposite.

I also hear a lot of gripes from engineers at many of these companies who often tell me a similiar story of how most of everything they sell now is made overseas even when stated as otherwise... because if "final" assembly is done in the US many places market as US made. I guess this has all left me a little jaded to the stereotypes and the "you get what you pay for" montra of yesterdays economy.

superdave269

Well I took off the heads. Easy to see where the gasket had failed. Looks like I "'steam cleaned" that piston. Nice and shiny.

I ended up buying a set of Edelbrock E-Street heads. Well to my surprise I discovered this morning one is not complete.
So much for having it finished by today or tomorrow.