while it's running good pop the hood with engine idling , find the Coolant sensor for the ECM , grab the wire several inches behind the connector then jiggle wire all over, if it runs bad or dies then replace Coolant sensor and wire connector with the new style sensor and connector

 

I feel you're pain. It's a real MF because we're not there and I don't think you are giving a actual description of what's going on. Is it cutting out or flooding out. In one of your earlier posts you pulled out the plugs and they were fouled. I asked you if you saw any black smoke when it's stalled. You replied no. You really can't see what's going on from the driver seat. It's seems like all your troubles occur when you're accelerating after the vehicle's been stopped. I can only guess but are your throttle bodies leaking raw gas (not the injectors) into the manifold? The crossfire intake manifold is a good one for puddling up with fuel.

 

Check wires on starter maybe loose causing to lose power to car

 

I was checking the TPS today and found it to be off a bit. It was .640 verses .525. I readjusted tehnTPS to .525, then decided to adjust the idle to around 650 RPM up from 550. Everything was good. Stopped the engine and put the breather assembly back on and restarted the car. Run god at first, the idl goy erattic and the RPMs dropped and a funny low noise started coming from the engine and it died. I turned the ignition off and the noise continued. I traced the noise to the starter that was free spinning (not engaging the engine). I had to disconnect the battery to get it to stop. If I try to reconnect the battery, the starter starter starts feee spinning again.
Let it sit for an hour and tried to reconnect the battery same result. Let it sit anouther hour and this time before trying to reconnect the battery, I cycled between start and off on the key switch about a half a dozen tiimes. Then I was able to reconnect the battery and start the car with no free spinning starter. Beginning to smell like the ignition switch under the dash (not key switch).

 

ECM switched power, distributor, and power for the check engine light come off the same terminal from the ignition switch.

 

I ordered the ignition switch.
I need to deal with this because of the problem of the starter issue. I think this may have been the second time that the starter hung open. Same thing about a month ago when I was dealing with the ignition coil. Same noise but I was not able to pin point it then. Today I checked the electric fan, injectors and general search under the hood.
I eliminated those as the source leaving the starter as the most likely culprit.
With any luck, changing the ignition switch will solve all of my problems.
I'll post an update after it is installed and I put some miles on it.

 

I was thinking about this today and I hope changing your ignition switch works out for you, however I doubt that's going to solve your problem as I stated why in post #45. Going back to one of your early posts you said your spark plugs were fouled. No way your plugs should be fouled. I think a better approach to this problem would be the first try to figure out why your plugs are fouling or/and running rich. Not saying it will, but if you fix the plug fouling issues it may solve your cutting out issues. You should really have a scan tool in your arsenal. Not just for reading codes but for interpreting the data stream. For example a wonky sensor will cause issues.
BTW, I'm a Brad K fan.

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I think you might have a wire that is not really making good contact. A wire that is probably hanging on my a couple of threads on the inside, which explains why it starts but as you take off it needs more juice through that wire and it can't get any. Possible wires that lead to Dist. or ECM.

 

Hiya Skids, You have a ton more experience with crossfires than me but I'm wondering about the fouling... The OP is not reporting any other drivability issues like hesitation, missing, poor idle or even hard starting, at least he didn't until he adjusted the TPS and idle... In my experience fouled plugs can cause a number of issues but I've never seen them completely kill an engine like it was turned off, then upon restart it runs fine for quite a distance and time....He said it ran good for 900 miles after the distributer change and all of a sudden it died, it would take a lot of fuel to foul out all the plugs at once... Maybe he should smell the oil for fuel or put a match to the dip stick if it's running that rich... If this is fuel related I'm thinking lack there-of.... I test drove an 82 few years ago that happened to be low on fuel and it completely died in a sharp turn, no sputter, just dead, I straightened it out and I just restarted it but I don't remember what I did with the ignition switch. Maybe his fuel pump is cutting out or the ECM control circuit for it is failing-(loose connection) which might explain the key reset being necessary for restart... I believe the ECM kills the fuel pump when there is no oil pressure in case of an accident, that could be the oil sending unit or wiring... or the engine dies for other reasons-then no oil pressure-ECM turns off the pump and still needs the power cycled... Just some thoughts....

OP
Sorry this is ******* you, I'm still voting for an electric/electronic issue and the switch is not out of the question. As I said in my first post, I still think it's related to having to turn the key off to get a restart which also resets the ECM... I was a component level electronics tech in the late 70's and 80's, the connectors used in those days were terrible, the board connectors were copper/aluminum traces that had a coat of solder over them not the gold looking ones of today. I did a lot of work for HP and I can't tell you how many flow diagrams for repairs mentioned "re-seating" the connections which is another way of cleaning them. right now if I were you I would replace the switch, get the engine running good again-(undo whatever you just adjusted) and drive it. If it dies again, gently, carefully, unplug the ECM and if the plugs are not corroded just plug them back in and try again.... Good luck

60

 

Well I don't really have much experience with the crossfire system. My experience comes from back in the early '90s I was maintaining a fleet of class 8 trucks that were dedicated CNG fueled and dual fuel CNG and gas Chevy pickup trucks with throttle body injection which is basically the same as the crossfire. You're correct that foul plugs won't cause cutting out. The way I'm looking at it is he may have something out of whack with the fuel management system because no way he should be having spark plugs that foul. Let's just say he's got a vacuum line with a leak to the MAP sensor for example. That could cause both. You going to have to fix that anyhow so maybe he'll get lucky. As far as him saying he's got no drivability problems, I doubt that. Half of the classic car guys drive stuff that's in worse shape than a 800,000 mile New York City taxi cab. Just so you know the fuel pump relay stays engaged until it's shut off or loses distributor reference pulse. The oil pressure/fuel pump switch is just a redundant feature in case the relay failed.
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I installed a new ignition switch today. Took it for couple of test drives. I died on the second test drive. I was running at a steady 55mph on a straight road and it just shut off same as all along. At least I have eliminated the switch as a problem.

The issue with the fuel fouled plugs I believe was because of the timing issues that I was having after swapping the ingition coil. I was off one gear causing it to be way advanced. Did the same thing with the new distributor. All is good now from that perspective. Timing set at 8 degrees advanced. no fouled plugs.

I think the next thing woill be to check the connectors on the ECM. It is a 41 year old vehicle with very little use during its life before I bought it.
I have put 11,000 miles on it in the two years I've owned it. It's my daily driver.
Maybe it just doesn't like being driven. LOL

 

What does the tachometer do when it shuts down?

 

Another question would be does the car loose power as mentioned previously, do the idiot lights come on when the engine dies? Besides the Starter connections there is a plug up by the heater box, it's sort of clear and part of the starter wiring harness, it has a habit of sort of burning up or getting black with poor connections...I think it's 6 wires some of them heavy... not sure this would cause you to cycle the key but its something else to look at... Good luck with the ECM and be gentle, they are hard to find..




60

 

If it's a wire or connector problem then start engine , open hood and start jiggling wires until something makes it die .
Have you located the temperature sensor for the computer and jiggled the wire around yet ? That ECT connector was trouble prone from the factory and replace with a two pin connector and sensor , a quick jiggle test usually shows its ugly side quickly , do the same for the ECM connectors while engine is running ,

 

Tach goes to zero and the CEL somes on.
CEL goes out after restarting the engine and no trouble codes are stored.

 

Good, now we're getting somewheres. Can you feel the engine braking the car when it cuts out?

 

No engine braking, it coasts. Gives me time to restart the engine before it comes to a stop.

I put a new coolant temperature sensor on it not long after I bought it in Feb, 2021 due a high idle.
Turned out to be the thermostat and not the sensor.

I'll start checking the wireness conntectios later today.​​​​​​​

 

Okay so now I need you to do a test. The 700R4 does not provide any engine braking in overdrive. Drive the car around in second gear and see if you can duplicate your issue. You need to note three things, that the engine is braking the car so we know that the engine is still rotating. Next keep an eye on the check engine light and your tachometer and report back. This will give me a good indication of what section of the car is failing.

 

I just went for a 20 mile test drive. No problem encountered on this drive.
I am assuming the 3rd will work for this test as well. 2nd was too slow to get on the main road. 3rd kept the engine and transmission engaged and allowed me to drive on the main roads. Just at a skightly higher rpm.

I will continue to drive the car this way until the next failure. Since it appears at random times, it may be a few days or the next time out.

Also, I checked the clear wire harness plug from the starter and the temperature sensor plug. Both seemed fine. Also, I tried wiggling the various wire harnesses under the hood with no engine failure.

I'll continue driving in 3rd until the next failure.

Thanks for the help in trying to solve this mystery.

 

Just an update. I have driven the car 300 miles running in 3rd gear. So far, no failures.
I swapped to non-ethanol premium fuel during this test run. I was running regular with ethanol and adding a small Lucas injector cleaner each tank previously.
I will continue to test in 3rd for now.