On my 383 I included a
Summit Racing™ Oil Pump and Pickup Kits SES-3-60-08-002, which I bought not realizing the implications of a high volume pump. The Comp rocker kit warns that I’ll need a deflector or else the rockers will run dry and gall.

I thought that the valve covers serve that purpose. Do I need deflectors and if so, do I need tall valve covers?

 

If the engine isn’t together yet, return the pump and go with a standard volume and pressure pump.
If the engine is running, are you having oil misting problems?
If you are having problems add the deflector they suggest and see if it solves the problem.
If you aren’t having any problems, don’t try to fix what isn’t broken!

 

I’m building it, so I can make the change now. Sounds like high volume is not a good choice for this build, yes?

 

It depends on the clearances in the engine and what other "leaks" there are like pressurized solid roller lifters, or EDM'd solid flat tappets etc. on whether a HV pump is beneficial or not. I've run them for years and not sure what sort of deflector would be needed. Higher volume pumps typically come with higher pressure springs..so they can move a lot of oil to the top end.

Usually the larger concern is having good drainback from the heads. Open the drain back holes as much as possible.

I tend to flood the top end with oil to keep the valve springs cool...but I run .750" lift cams and stout springs on the street. Just make sure you have good valve seals too.

As mentioned...a stock pump with the higher pressure "Z-28" style spring is usually enough for most builds with tighter clearances. The only thing a HV pump does is "get to" a certain oil pressure at a lower RPM. So it's good for looser engines or ones with extra built in leaks to "outrun" the leaks and not have a low pressure situation at low speeds. The spring determines the pressure and the size of the pump determines the volume and how fast it will get there. You don't want it "bypassing" at max pressure at all times which can happen with an engine with tight clearances and say lower gears that keep the RPM up at low speeds. But if you're at cruising speed/RPM and the pressure still goes higher when you floor it...you're doing well.

JIM

 

Bogus. There are no implications with HI Vol pump. And that pump has nothing to do with the oil drippers on the valve cover.
You are reading some false info from somebody.

Deflectors in the valve covers are always a bonus. But they do, in most cases require a taller V.C.

Lots of engines run HI Vol. Those pumps move a lot of oil and help cool the oil.
Volume is one thing.
Pressure is another.

 

The doc that comes with the pump says it targets 70 lbs. And I do have a set of high Edelbrock covers. So then there’s no harm in using the high volume pump?

 

Correct. First, let me explain a HI Vol pump. What makes it different.
There are two spur / gears inside. Those spin to move oil. On a HI Vol pump those gears are 25% longer. That's all. 25% longer. And on some performance pumps the diameter of the pickup tube that attaches the pickup screen is larger, to move more oil.

An oil pumps pressure data is determined by the color code spring inside the pump. These can be bought separately to tweak the pressure. That spring is what makes each model pump different. Those two features determine how the pump was designed. Of course, bearing clearance & weight of oil are another thing.

What gets HI Vol pumps a bad name is the guy who races occasionally and fills the crankcase with 20w-50 oil. Then screams down the track at 6500 RPMs. That is a lot of strain on the pumps shaft and cam gear.

When you think about oil pumps, Hi Vol or HI Press, think about a clothes dryer vent hose and a garden hose. One has pressure, one has volume.

By all means, run the pump you have, stay away from 50w oil, it will be just fine.

 

Unless you are running a Dart or World block over 6000rpm continuously there is absolutely no need for a HV pump ever in a street application period. The HV pump has a "potential volume" and like Jim says above, that potential is reached at a much lower RPM......the stock Small Block oiling system simply doesn't flow what a HV pump can offer.......the vertical passage in the block that goes from the oil filter housing to the back of the rear cam bearing is just too small. You can see this passage and how big it is inside the cam plug/bellhousing area.....there is a raised cast rib, and on the drivers side deck, there is a pipe plug flush tapped into the rear, this is the drill point for this passage, look how big it is then tell me the HV pump will help, it can't......this is well known with endurance racers who were stuck using GM blocks until the Dart Rocket block showed up in 1997.......even the "Bow Tie CNC" blocks had to have this, and the fore/aft passages or lifter bore feeds just above the cam bores......drilled with a long *** drill, about 3 feet long, VERY carefully......the exact size eludes me but it wasn't a huge amount......anyway, all oil goes here first on a stock block, around the cam bearing groove, around the cam bearing, then through the passages between the cam and crank.....the crank is oiled secondary....with all of these orifice restrictions....the HV pump gets loaded quick and reaches max push almost immediately.......all the passages need to be enlarged to feed a 7000rpm engine and then you would need and could actually use the HV pump.
Now the Dart block is primary crank oiled.......but the funny thing is that the oiling system in this block is SO good.....that the HV pump isn't needed here either......unless you are revving sustained 7000rpm for long periods (over 30 seconds)........
The point is that pushing 50psi of pressure at idle is not necessary nor is it desirable......you are sending the max amount of oil to the top end at idle and around town....or in light driving......and
At .003 on the mains and .002-.0025 on the rods....assuming the cam journals are .002 clearance you will have 25psi at idle with a 15w50 oil in 70 degree temps.......this is about perfect.......when you rev it, it will have a nice quick sweep on the gauge but not too quick.....it should have 65-70 max at 6000rpm......the STD belly button M55 pump will do this all day long.......I don't even shim them anymore at the spring......I pull the plate off, check the gear and thrust real quick and install......
So....you simply do not need it so why have it? Are you going to hurt anything using it? Ummmm....well, maybe....because you are putting a lot more stress on the distributor gear.......so why do that?

So...to the OP.....you can do what you like.....but I wouldn't......

Jebby

 

So I have my original pump… how do I determine if that can be reused, needs to be rebuilt, or needs to be replaced?

 

My own personal rule is, new engine equals new pump.
Just make sure to tack weld the pickup tube onto the pump.

 

As mentioned......not expensive enough to worry about......just make sure you use the IS55 shaft with the steel collar......I also like to install these with a stud......cheap upgrade and so much better.....if you have even pulled the casting apart on a main cap due to the oil pump bolt....you will use studs from then on out.....

Jebby

 

Would it make sense to simply change the spring in the current high volume pump? I'm hesitating because I bought this pump months ago and I doubt I can send it back now. So looking for a way to use what I have.

 

If you feel the pressure is too high, you can buy a lower spring rate. I believe Summit has them with pressure description. And just because your pump is designed for 70 lbs does not mean your set-up will achieve it.

I am amazed how many people get all paranoid about HI Vol pumps for nothing. So according to you-know-who ^^above ^ everybody should get rid of their HI Vol pump or else.

I am sticking with my HI Vol pump. Never have issues. But who am I? Not an expert engine builder.
However, if you will note that one of the most respected engine builders in the automotive industry that ships out thousands of engines installs HI Vol pumps in their engines, maybe they would be more convincing than I. After all, what does BLUEPRINT ENGINES know, right?

 

I agree. Nothing sucks more than watching your oild gauge drop. And taking down the pan later sucks. Tack it in place and then forget about it.

 

I think if anyone considers Blueprint Engines a well respected engine builder they need to re-examine their perception of this rather small industry......Well respected to me is Reher-Morrison, Pat Musi, Scott Foxwell, Sonny's....etc......these people know how to build engines. Blueprint knows how to make maximum profit......and perception is a huge part of that, and you are not going to sell backyard Joe an engine that makes 25psi at idle......and the "HV" pump in the description is like seasoning on a really good cut of meat...100% unnecessary.....
I have never told anyone on this forum or in real life that running a HV pump will cause "or else" situations.......get that straight......people here can do whatever TF they want.....and if they like seeing 60psi of oil pressure at idle, hot....then have a party man.......
But I stand behind every statement I make here with real world testing and I am one of few that have back to back tested both pumps on both BBC and SBC and know exactly how and why they do what they do and what the actual outcome is.......plus I explained in great detail how and why it is pointless to run one on a street small block.......pointless, but not cautionary......
FYI....Blueprint does quite a few things that I think are subpar.....their dual pattern sbc head with a GEN1 runner that that bolt a MF'n Vortec intake to......just stupid......and they are leaking in the field.......but hey, one manifold part number saves a ton of money.....but hey man, it is Blueprint, what do I know.....????

Jebby

 

Jebbysan and hotrod427 are by far the two most experienced and respected engine builders regularly on this forum.
You would be wise to listen to the voice of experience, and be thankful for their advice.

Blueprint is very successful at marketing, to a low price point.
GM is very successful at manufacturing, for long term durability. Guess which one they use?

 

To return your current pump after several months is no big deal to most suppliers.
Especially someone like Summit Racing and many others.
They understand that plans change and building a project takes time.
If it hasn’t been installed and still in the original packaging they should take it back.
Worst case is they charge you a restocking fee.
Even worse, they don’t take it back, but like Jebby said, they are inexpensive and you can sell the hi volume pump to someone else.
Keep us posted on your project.

 

Just to add a little info for clarification.......pressure is inversely proportional to volume.......when one goes up, the other drops.....so this proves that the HV is unnecessary as it creates a lot of pressure at lower rpm....therefore......it doesn't need the volume......if the oil had no restriction....the pressure would not be so high.......so that explains that......
Now the high pressure pumps have zero changes to a standard pump with the exception a stronger spring or sometimes a shim in the blowoff........this does not mean the pump will push more pressure on the gauge with your setup.....it means that it's potential to blowoff is higher, set at a higher psi before the relief valve blows.....if you have 60 psi at 5000rpm with the std pressure pump......you will still see 60psi with a high pressure pump......
If the high pressure pump has a 70psi spring in it and your max ever pressure is 60....the blowoff will never operate.
Now you could run a tight clearance engine with the HV pump and it will constantly be blowing the relief.......is that a problem? Ummmm....no but why would you want that happening all the time? It is not the way the pump is designed to operate......
Many of you have seen a stocker small block that fires up with 60psi of pressure and may drop to 50 when warm at idle......then you rev it and it just stays at 60-65psi........this is a HV pump blowing the relief valve all the time.....

Jebby

 

I assume you are talking about the roller tip Comp rocker arms, with std ball studs. The biggest problem with those is that they do not like stiffer than stock valve springs. It will make them gall and fail. The deflectors in that case are a band-aid, not a solution, and may not work anyway, there is just too much pressure. But yes even with stock valve springs your valve covers must have the oil deflectors built in.

I did run the brown Z28 off-road valve springs for 30 years with stock ball-type rocker arms, with factory valve covers, and they were fine. That gave it near 7k rpm capability. I would not go any stiffer than that with ball-n-stud rockers.. Check your valve spring stiffness. If they are stiffer than stock, or the Z28 springs, go to real roller rockers, and you will have no worries about failure.

Even with stock springs the ***** should have some moly put on them, they need to break-in just like a cam lobe.

If you have a HR cam, you may need stiffer springs than that, and I would stay away from the ball type rockers.

It's all about the combo!

 

Hello again Jebbysan!

We, Thank you for taking some of your valuable time to help us understand "why" we should use the standard flow and pressure oil pumps. The sales people tend to like to push "performance parts" and with oil being the lifeblood of our current engines makes the sale even easier for expensive oil pumps. If a standard oil pump is "good enough" then it "has to be better" to use a High pressure or high volume pump.

It's kind of like the people putting HIGH Octane gasoline into their 8-1 compression ratio engine and expecting to go faster with the extra octane.... The funny thing is the people who put the High Octane in their Toyota's (just an example) are "absolutely convinced" that it makes them more power. It is kind of like trying to explain to a person that a Diesel engine has no carburetor or any intake air control. I have had that discussion with a few smart people.

One thing my mechanic/builder/buddy did when he first got hold of my engine block was to clean it and then he painted the oiled surfaces inside the engine with GLYPTAL to help seal the cast iron surface and keep the HOT oil in the oil pan at the bottom of the engine. It does help keep the oil flowing well and most of the oil resides in the oil pan and not in the little bumps and dips in the cast Iron. He wanted to install a standard oil pump and I wanted the best.

Too OLD to Soon,
Too SMART to Late...