It's always dangerous to group all small blocks and big blocks together. I have a freshly rebuilt 427. I built it a little stronger than stock, very little. This is supposedly a 390HP engine. I've had it on the dyno, on the track, and on Desktop Dyno-all three point to about 265-270HP and about 430 ft-lbs of torque. My buddy has a 69 with a 350 automatic with the 2.02 heads and headers. Desktop Dyno shows him putting out the same, if not more HP than my engine. Who pulls who depends on what speed we are talking about. The stock big blocks make torque, not HP. He tries to pull me at low cruising speeds, he loses. At higher speeds, I lose. It's that simple. Computer control and the six speed don't have much to do with it. In fact, the four speeds don't have an overdrive, so the Vette wouldn't have to worry about down-shifting.

Now, what you have to keep in mind, is I'm talking about my big block. There are a lot of guys with big blocks that put out monster HP numbers. However, if you're talking stock, the old 427's (with exception to the L88, L89, and ZL1) are not HP numbers. But they'll make torque where it's fun to drive, down low.

 

GTP4UNME,

The new cars really are something. Just saw a TV ad for a Maxima, 265 horse power. This is more power than the first Turbo 911's put out, more than my new 85 Vette. My Z is about the same rwhp as a '71 454 LS6, a very strong 350rwhp. A mild 390 gross horse power 454 or 427 is probably somewhere in the low 300's. The one you raced may have been a crisply tuned 390 version with 2" exhaust, or a tired high performance engine. Maybe one that was just setup poorly.

The drivability of the new cars is what really sets them apart from the older ones - the 6 speed contibutes greatly to this.

Chuck

 

ok, you beat a car 30 years old. now go race a '00 6 speed Vette. :steering: :auto:

 

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that the 427 came in three setups for the street:
390hp
400hp
and 435hp solid lifter engine with tri-power.
(as well as the L88 435 hp, which really was more like 520hp, but you'll never see one on the street, just at the vintage races or in a collection.)

It's a big difference between the base 427/390 and the 435. The largest problem is traction, and the fact that many of the owners of the high-horsepower big blocks ripped their high-compression engines out and went for low compression (and better idling) 454s in the 70s. My car is like that, but with roller rockers and other technologies, it's easy to surpass the original ratings while still looking pretty stock on the street.

But to give you an idea, my '69 is roughly 435 real horsepower now with its 454...but it is exactly as fast as my C5 with just 350 horsepower. Some of it is traction, some of it is gearing, some is chassis and some suspension, and a lot of it is weight and weight distribution.

 

Oh boy, another angry person.

Yes, I came on here boasting horribly of how I beat the **** out of this POS 'Vette :rolleyes:. I asked a question, get over it.


So race a 'Vette of the same year as my car? Put a fat guy in the 'Vette to make up the extra weight and thats like racing myself.

Tim


[Modified by GTP4UNME, 2:45 PM 4/18/2003]

 

Yoooooo guys why are you so angry with this guy,he came on here asking a few questions,not like he was bragging or anything,remember were the ones(c3) on this forum that are usually courteous to others,so relax,its still a gm product. :thumbs:

 

GTP4UNME

Don't worry about all the angry folks.

I think it can be said that a modded 427 could pull a 10 sec 1/4 pretty easily but thats not what you were asking. Its pretty much confirmed that you could beat a stock (or near stock) 427.

Good kill....too bad we don't have a kill forum anymore :rolleyes:

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

 

Seriously... I've only had my T/A for a little over a month, is there some underlying hate that there's supposed to be between 'Vette owners and Trans Am owners :confused: .

Tim

 

The answer is really dependent on an unknown. What was really under the guy's hood? No way whatsoever of telling. Coulda been a tired 350, or a stock 427/390, or a 327, or a fresh 454/550 hp that he is in the middle of breakin in and couldn't get into. But I think you got the info you wanted. You prolly would beat a 427/390, and 80% of the stock big-blocks of the era. Those LS1s are badbooty engines. I know, I used to hava 98 SS. Another thing, with your MN6 riding in auto tranny fluid, you have less horsepower-robbing drivetrain losses. The new hotrods are nice, quick, sweet rides but I bought and sold several, lookin for one that would give me the feelin I had when I owned my ol 69 Camaro. I finally found that feelin in another "old car".

Brett :thumbs:

 

Don't worry about it. Any group is gonna' have all kinds of opinions. On the 427, mine's a 400 (gross) hp, but right now it's probably a little less, mainly because of carb and tune issues. Your rig would take it. Now, once the alloy heads and new cam are in, you would be dead meat :D Ain't bench racing fun? :cheers:

Hans

 

It's pretty amazing that the new fangled stock EFI hotrods of today can take on a big block vette. I think it's cool. For so many years it was too easy to put a whoopin' on the new cars. It was also kinda depressing that Detroit couldn't make anything run. Technology is great. I guess I need to take a ride in one of these cars, because it's hard to believe that the big block torque of my 454 can be beat on the street by todays stock hotrods. Top end I could see losing, but from a light to light roll...that's a tough one.
By the way. I love it when people want to race me because I have a Vette.
:D

 

Let me know the next time you see a rusty Corvette.

 

LOL, I just noticed now that my statement got editted into "poopiebox" :D.

Why do u say that though? I've seen plenty of C3's that aren't in great shape anymore.

Tim

 

I think he was referring to the fact that vette bodies are fiberglass, which don't rust.

Brett :thumbs:

 

Everything else rusts though :jester

 

Hey, guys...........The big news is- Corvettes can't rest on a reputation. We have to show 'em the money, or stow it..... Lookin' fast ain't good enough.
:yesnod: :chevy :chevy :yesnod:
my 2c.

 

Well....

First - GTP4UNME never had an attitude. In fact - he sounded very open.

Second - There are alot of L-88 hoods on smallblocks with 427 emblems - nonetheless, it is quite possible to be beat - whether the 427 was old, tired or even actually a 350.

Third - I am perplexed by this situation - the new technology has driveability, performance, convenience, etc, etc, etc. It is hard (especially growing up with muscle cars and the ominous 427 big blocks)..... but guys - lets face it - technology is here. That is why I am considering putting a LS-6 smallblock in my car to replace my 427/435. I know - don't shoot me full of holes guys. I still love the BB - no doubt. But for that mystical, 427 feeling, just think, I can put in pump gas, not fry eggs on my feet, enjoy A/C, etc, etc. Oh - I forgot room to change the plugs...:)

4th - I do not like getting beat by an average car. I DO believe the oldere style Vettes have it all over the newere generation cars, but DANG ! There is nothing like the styling of the 69 vette w/L-88 hood. :D

5th - I like to run at times - and I could relate completely to his review of the guy waving 'OK - I'm done racing..." Even so - this TA seemed to invite the run in a playful manner.


6th - GTP$UNME - hang around - we need more guys like you - WITHOUT attitudes. :cheers:

 

Thanks :thumbs: .

Also, I should have some track times tomorrow for the sake of reference. My guess....16.5 @ 105 :D (first time at the track with a manual tranny)

Tim

 

:lol: Yeah, if you don't take it easy off the line, you could end up with a 15+ second pass. ;)

Just roll out on your first pass, and get more aggressive from there on subsequent runs.

Good luck!

 

MassVette is correct. The legend of the Rat vette far outweighes the real thing in most cases. To a lot of people the big block vette is the top predator on the street and this reputation has gone on probably since 1965, they are so rare to find roaming around anymore that the legend becomes even stronger . They are intimidating to look at, that huge engine in that little car, and that deep exhaust note. I've had new SS camaro guys, cower to my car before just becouse of the 454 badges thinking it must be all powerfull when the fact is I'm sure they would give me a very good run or possibly beat me, stock to stock they would for sure beat me. Some people tend to get defensive when you start showing holes in the Rats armor.

:cheers:
Pat Kunz