Crate Motors
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Re: Crate Motors (Ryan77)
You guys with the AR "racing" engines, please post actual 1/4 times instead of overblown hp numbers.
I am/was unwilling to spend 4 -5 grand on an engine so i dropped in a goodwrench for 1200 bucks and later got a set of aluminum L-98 heads on ebay for 275. A generic 212/218 cam for 50 bucks from summit rounded out the package. I run upper 13 sec 1/4 for a 1500 dollar investment and still maintain a very streetable car that i can take on business trips and drive every day.
If you can turn a wrench, i just don't understand why you would spend over 4 thousand dollars to buy a prebuilt engine.
I am/was unwilling to spend 4 -5 grand on an engine so i dropped in a goodwrench for 1200 bucks and later got a set of aluminum L-98 heads on ebay for 275. A generic 212/218 cam for 50 bucks from summit rounded out the package. I run upper 13 sec 1/4 for a 1500 dollar investment and still maintain a very streetable car that i can take on business trips and drive every day.
If you can turn a wrench, i just don't understand why you would spend over 4 thousand dollars to buy a prebuilt engine.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
From: The great state of Massholia
Re: Crate Motors (1969Vette350)
-Okay, so with the GM warranty being crap, now it comes down to the T56. Should I get the one from P.R.T. <--Quote from 1969Vette350
Well, I own an '01 WS6 LS1, T56 and gotta tell you, it's a technological marvel of a motor, the tranny runs like a 4-spd + overdrive + OVER overdrive! In 6th (which I rarely see) @ 1500 rpm at 75mph w/373 rear end. If I hadn't bought the car as a collector, I'd put 410's back there.
Now my point: I'm calling either AR or GMdirect because I want to tinker with the Vette; Heads, Intakes, Carbs... I miss that stuff :cry So 1969Vette350, there's my .02. I was curious about using the LS1 long block with an aluminum intake, carb,vac advance etc...
After some opinions from this thread, Thanks Brow-zies :thumbs: , I'm back to the reason I bought this Vette... PARTS, MAN! I MISS THE PARTS! :mad and now what's it gonna be Bro's, AR or GM? I'm only looking for @ 300hp, but I'm ALL ABOUT the TORQUE :reddevil
[Modified by WS6TA01, 9:00 AM 5/24/2003]
Well, I own an '01 WS6 LS1, T56 and gotta tell you, it's a technological marvel of a motor, the tranny runs like a 4-spd + overdrive + OVER overdrive! In 6th (which I rarely see) @ 1500 rpm at 75mph w/373 rear end. If I hadn't bought the car as a collector, I'd put 410's back there.
Now my point: I'm calling either AR or GMdirect because I want to tinker with the Vette; Heads, Intakes, Carbs... I miss that stuff :cry So 1969Vette350, there's my .02. I was curious about using the LS1 long block with an aluminum intake, carb,vac advance etc...
After some opinions from this thread, Thanks Brow-zies :thumbs: , I'm back to the reason I bought this Vette... PARTS, MAN! I MISS THE PARTS! :mad and now what's it gonna be Bro's, AR or GM? I'm only looking for @ 300hp, but I'm ALL ABOUT the TORQUE :reddevil
[Modified by WS6TA01, 9:00 AM 5/24/2003]
Pro
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 524
Likes: 59
From: watchung N.J.
Re: Crate Motors (WS6TA01)
I just finished a 385 fastburn G.M. Crate engine and added the hot cam and roller rockers 1.6 ratio- This motor is awsome, it has very good torque and unbelievable topend power, it idles nicely, cranks right up, does'nt overheat,
and we got 25 mpg on a recent trip! I have had a lot of rebuilt motors in the past, both rebuilt by myself and ones rebuilt by others, and I can truly say that this motor is noticably better, and all the parts are brand new and assembled in perfect assembly conditions at the G.M. Assembly plant!
I have 430 h.p. with the weight of a smallblock all new parts for a total
$4200.00 and could'nt be happier, to me this is a no-brainer!
and we got 25 mpg on a recent trip! I have had a lot of rebuilt motors in the past, both rebuilt by myself and ones rebuilt by others, and I can truly say that this motor is noticably better, and all the parts are brand new and assembled in perfect assembly conditions at the G.M. Assembly plant!
I have 430 h.p. with the weight of a smallblock all new parts for a total
$4200.00 and could'nt be happier, to me this is a no-brainer!
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 26,545
Likes: 46
From: Huntersville NC
Spokewrench, If you have posted driving impressions previously I missed it. Sounds great! Is the engine broken in enuf to try it at the track? Rainout today, but why not plan on attending the next corvette challenge at Etown? :)
Turtlevette - Olivier (Grandpsort C3) has posted many many (many! :lol: ) times his times.... I think his best so far is 12.00000001 secs! :lol: @ approximately 155 mph... or maybe it was 115.. I am not sure how much his 68 weighs, tho... could be a bit lighter than stock.
Although, on the "bang for buck" scale, hard to beat what you have done... MJ
[Modified by MNJack, 11:19 AM 5/24/2003]
Turtlevette - Olivier (Grandpsort C3) has posted many many (many! :lol: ) times his times.... I think his best so far is 12.00000001 secs! :lol: @ approximately 155 mph... or maybe it was 115.. I am not sure how much his 68 weighs, tho... could be a bit lighter than stock.
Although, on the "bang for buck" scale, hard to beat what you have done... MJ
[Modified by MNJack, 11:19 AM 5/24/2003]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 844
Likes: 0
From: Central KY
Re: Crate Motors (WS6TA01)
Go to GM PArts Direct: http://www.gmpartsdirect.com and browse. They sell all the crates for far below retail. I used to have my eye on an LT4 long block that was offered. I think the ZZ4 is what they push these days. That could make you a solid street motor. Of course you could go for the 454HO - which IMHO gives the best bang for the big-block buck from GM. Some of the competitors o great work in blueprinting and balancing solid motors - don't rule out guys like RHS, etc... Enjoy!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 7
From: Katy (Houston) TX
CI 7-8 Veteran
Re: Crate Motors (turtlevette)
You guys with the AR "racing" engines, please post actual 1/4 times instead of overblown hp numbers.
I am/was unwilling to spend 4 -5 grand on an engine so i dropped in a goodwrench for 1200 bucks and later got a set of aluminum L-98 heads on ebay for 275. A generic 212/218 cam for 50 bucks from summit rounded out the package. I run upper 13 sec 1/4 for a 1500 dollar investment and still maintain a very streetable car that i can take on business trips and drive every day.
If you can turn a wrench, i just don't understand why you would spend over 4 thousand dollars to buy a prebuilt engine.
I am/was unwilling to spend 4 -5 grand on an engine so i dropped in a goodwrench for 1200 bucks and later got a set of aluminum L-98 heads on ebay for 275. A generic 212/218 cam for 50 bucks from summit rounded out the package. I run upper 13 sec 1/4 for a 1500 dollar investment and still maintain a very streetable car that i can take on business trips and drive every day.
If you can turn a wrench, i just don't understand why you would spend over 4 thousand dollars to buy a prebuilt engine.
I think Olivier has got you beat by a mile but then again in your book maybe low 12's are "overblown". :leaving:
Pro
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 524
Likes: 59
From: watchung N.J.
Re: (MNJack)
It just turned 1000 miles so, I will be down to e-town soon! I am really interested as to how well it will run! The only draw back I can see is the 3:36 rear is not ideal for the engine, but we will see! I know one thing, this motor pulls way stronger than the 70 with the auto trans and 3:55s that car pulled a 13.85 last fall before I changed the exhaust to 2 1/2 pipes (had 2").
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
From: The great state of Massholia
Re: (tshort)
OK, I'm working hard on this now. TSHORT, why is it that at GMDIRECT, the 383 is listed as a high-torque truck engine? Is that what the beauty in your sig. is? :skep:
Pro
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
From: sebastopol ca
Re: Crate Motors (1969Vette350)
i think it totally depends on how much power you want. AR racing has some damn good deals on hot 383s, so does Golen, the zz4 is nice if 355 hp keeps you happy, if you have lots of money buy a 600hp 454 smallblock from bill mitchell :D
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Re: Crate Motors (tshort)
I think Olivier has got you beat by a mile but then again in your book maybe low 12's are "overblown". :leaving:
You certainly have an impressive LOOKING engine. Let me know if those flames on your valve covers get you another 1/8 sec and whether it overheats this summer. Hopefully you are not screwing up the drivability of your nice car with too much engine.
By the way, i'd pitch that flex fan and go with a clutch fan. The flex sounds like crap when you hit 6 grand and doesn't cool that well.
[Modified by turtlevette, 5:31 PM 5/24/2003]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 839
Likes: 0
From: Lewiston, Maine
Re: Crate Motors
Hey guys let's not start any mud slinging, we're all Vette guys remember? Myself and WS6 are just looking for some assistance :cheers: This isn't about whose so and so is bigger than someone else's so and so.
On a related note: I will go with a T56, I just don't know when exactly. It may be with this round of mods (read: loan) or it could be with the next one. I'm trying to work out all of the financial issues for all the parts I want & need.
-Geoffrey
On a related note: I will go with a T56, I just don't know when exactly. It may be with this round of mods (read: loan) or it could be with the next one. I'm trying to work out all of the financial issues for all the parts I want & need.
-Geoffrey
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,429
Likes: 14
From: CA
Re: Crate Motors (groovyjay)
Hey groovyjay,
There is a company that makes carb intakes for the newer Vette motors. I don't have the link in front of me, but if you do a search you may be able to find it. I think it was a GM race part :confused:
There is a company that makes carb intakes for the newer Vette motors. I don't have the link in front of me, but if you do a search you may be able to find it. I think it was a GM race part :confused:
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 248
Likes: 1
From: Kansas City MO
Re: Crate Motors (80Xflags)
If ZZ's are old tech and way over priced, what are the other options??? :confused:
Those should get you pletny confused ;)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 2
From: Beaverton, OR
Re: Crate Motors (turtlevette)
You guys with the AR "racing" engines, please post actual 1/4 times instead of overblown hp numbers.
I am/was unwilling to spend 4 -5 grand on an engine so i dropped in a goodwrench for 1200 bucks and later got a set of aluminum L-98 heads on ebay for 275. A generic 212/218 cam for 50 bucks from summit rounded out the package. I run upper 13 sec 1/4 for a 1500 dollar investment and still maintain a very streetable car that i can take on business trips and drive every day.
If you can turn a wrench, i just don't understand why you would spend over 4 thousand dollars to buy a prebuilt engine.
I am/was unwilling to spend 4 -5 grand on an engine so i dropped in a goodwrench for 1200 bucks and later got a set of aluminum L-98 heads on ebay for 275. A generic 212/218 cam for 50 bucks from summit rounded out the package. I run upper 13 sec 1/4 for a 1500 dollar investment and still maintain a very streetable car that i can take on business trips and drive every day.
If you can turn a wrench, i just don't understand why you would spend over 4 thousand dollars to buy a prebuilt engine.
As far as spending the money goes, this was the best route that I could find. I priced similar (or the same parts) and don't think that I could put the same engine together for the money once I factor in the machine work that I would need. If I'm a moron for spending the money, by all means, tell me, but I (and others) feel like it is money well spent.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 7
From: Katy (Houston) TX
CI 7-8 Veteran
Re: Crate Motors (turtlevette)
turtlevette - I'm not even going to bother responding to any more of your baiting. I'm not here to argue or take over this thread. I'm happy with my decision and I hope you are happy with yours....2 different choices.
....on to my $.02 worth. IMO I think realibility, long lastingness, and performance are on different curves. When you go too far into the performance arena things aren't going to last as long unless you spend a fortune on the VERY best parts all around. Then there's reliability and having an engine that will last 300K miles. I don't think you can have both.
A ZZ motor IMO is a nice compromise between a lasting engine and performance whereas one of the more "race" setup engines from AR and other shops will be more on the performance side. So choose what you will...I wanted a little more performance but I'm sure it will cost me a little more down the road.
....on to my $.02 worth. IMO I think realibility, long lastingness, and performance are on different curves. When you go too far into the performance arena things aren't going to last as long unless you spend a fortune on the VERY best parts all around. Then there's reliability and having an engine that will last 300K miles. I don't think you can have both.
A ZZ motor IMO is a nice compromise between a lasting engine and performance whereas one of the more "race" setup engines from AR and other shops will be more on the performance side. So choose what you will...I wanted a little more performance but I'm sure it will cost me a little more down the road.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
From: The great state of Massholia
Re: Crate Motors (tshort)
:nono: :boxing guys.
This is what the forum's about, a place for someone (like me too, who's been [admittedly] out of touch for a while), to ask and get feedback from people whom you (do I dare say) TRUST. So, I appreciate all the links, comments and experiences from all, particularly with regard to customer service from the various companies you've done business with. Whether your motor's cost you $1500 or $16,000 doesn't mean an opinion is more or less valuable to me.
I think it's awesome that this Forum exists as a resource because 10 years ago when I was building my 442, yes an OLDSmobubble, this wasn't an option to get info. You either read everything in Hot Rod (always favoring Chevy, by the way) or had a couple guys at the track who MIGHT stear you straight.
Anyway,I still welcome any solid advice/experiences to help out with what to order. And look forward to more advice when I get the motor ordered! after that, I'll be into the SUSPESION! (my personal favorite part about this project is the potential there)
Teddy
This is what the forum's about, a place for someone (like me too, who's been [admittedly] out of touch for a while), to ask and get feedback from people whom you (do I dare say) TRUST. So, I appreciate all the links, comments and experiences from all, particularly with regard to customer service from the various companies you've done business with. Whether your motor's cost you $1500 or $16,000 doesn't mean an opinion is more or less valuable to me.
I think it's awesome that this Forum exists as a resource because 10 years ago when I was building my 442, yes an OLDSmobubble, this wasn't an option to get info. You either read everything in Hot Rod (always favoring Chevy, by the way) or had a couple guys at the track who MIGHT stear you straight.
Anyway,I still welcome any solid advice/experiences to help out with what to order. And look forward to more advice when I get the motor ordered! after that, I'll be into the SUSPESION! (my personal favorite part about this project is the potential there)
Teddy
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,429
Likes: 14
From: CA
Re: Crate Motors (WS6TA01)
If you still have your Olds, you should check out www.442.com
Great Olds site. The FAQ has very detailed info
Great Olds site. The FAQ has very detailed info
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 11,840
Likes: 0
From: Galloway NJ
Re: Crate Motors (turtlevette)
I think Olivier has got you beat by a mile but then again in your book maybe low 12's are "overblown". :leaving:
Sorry if i am coming off nasty but anyone can throw lots of money at their car to get some impressive times. Grandsport probably has 30 or 40 grand in that car to run those times.
You certainly have an impressive LOOKING engine. Let me know if those flames on your valve covers get you another 1/8 sec and whether it overheats this summer. Hopefully you are not screwing up the drivability of your nice car with too much engine.
By the way, i'd pitch that flex fan and go with a clutch fan. The flex sounds like crap when you hit 6 grand and doesn't cool that well.
[Modified by turtlevette, 5:31 PM 5/24/2003]
Sorry if i am coming off nasty but anyone can throw lots of money at their car to get some impressive times. Grandsport probably has 30 or 40 grand in that car to run those times.
You certainly have an impressive LOOKING engine. Let me know if those flames on your valve covers get you another 1/8 sec and whether it overheats this summer. Hopefully you are not screwing up the drivability of your nice car with too much engine.
By the way, i'd pitch that flex fan and go with a clutch fan. The flex sounds like crap when you hit 6 grand and doesn't cool that well.
[Modified by turtlevette, 5:31 PM 5/24/2003]
$1000 for 383 kit
$1300 for heads
$200 cam
$600-800 machine shop
already at $3k and you're not even done... for what 360ish HP
for $3k you can get an AR 383 with 100 more hp.
When I was looking at the costs of bulding up my L48, that's what I was looking at. So now I'm saving for an AR, since I can't get close to the same performance doing it myself without spending a lot more...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 7
From: Katy (Houston) TX
CI 7-8 Veteran
Re: Crate Motors (Metal Wulf)
that was exactly my thinking, Metal Wulf. Plus, it's really better to match parts and I don't know enough to do that well. For those that do, kudos to you, but I'd rather let the experts do the parts matching, machining, and all the other stuff that takes tools I don't have. I still have the satisfaction of pulling the old one, tidying up a bit, and putting in the new one. Heck, just putting a new engine in was a whole lot more work than I thought. But all fun stuff.
I'm sure there are other speed shops around that also have good crate engines and hopefully some others that have bought from other places will chime in. But I have heard enough bad things from Speedomotive to know to run from them.
I'm sure there are other speed shops around that also have good crate engines and hopefully some others that have bought from other places will chime in. But I have heard enough bad things from Speedomotive to know to run from them.