No I expect a bubble gum brush would be inadequate:jester

Sure, Like i said in my original post, I have know people to do that and not line-hone...perhaps the process of line honing is only required for the more **** buildiers, or those looking for astronomical RPM's - that said I would still line-hone if I could.

NO NO NO - balance that assembly, you will love it...

Thanks for the replys guys... I'm the kind of person that has to have others input in order to get the brains in motion :crazy: [/QUOTE]


[Modified by fauxrs, 12:54 PM 10/2/2003]

 

Currently the blocks just been hot tanked, magnafluxed and punched .030... I got to do 2 of em! Like i said... shiny stuff :jester

I can see if the shop I'm using can align hone an balance... I remember reading on a thread here that something like 7 grams total off is slinging 300 lbs out of round or something outrageous.

I'm gonna be looking into all of the above...

But one other question, when I'm getting it alignhoned, should I upgrade to steel caps for the mains? Its only a two bolt, but I understand that the 2 bolt setup if its built to handle it... can take 500 horsepower?

Thanks guys!

Oh... and any other things that are common to do while the motors down that ya'll would recomend?

:cheers:

 

steel caps on a 2 bolt is a waste of money.

 

I had to throw it out to see how yall could twist my arm into thinking about it! :D

 

I agree. If you want to get really fancy, run some splayed main caps to convert the 2 bolt to a 4 bolt. :D

NOT needed for MOST applications, but I don't know how deep the pockets go. :smash: :cheers:

 

Because I hate using them, I do not use head studs in any motors except aluminum blocks. And race motors are taken apart much more frequently than a street motor. On the main caps I use studs on some motors and bolts on others. I have never had a problem with either one, and the motors I build are designed to rev to 8500 RPM.
The main problem with studs is that most people install them wrong. You never want to tighten a stud into the block. Finger tighten them only. If you tighten them in the block then put on a main cap or a head it will cause distortion in the block, leading to cracks in the block and main bearing problems.
I would never align hone a block unless it is absolutley neccesary. When ever you remove material from the main bores you decrease the amount of crush on the main bearings, which can lead to a bearing not transfering heat as well and can lead to a spun bearing. Also any material you remove from the main bores move the crank closer to the cam centerline which causes more play in the timing chain, not a big problem on a street motor but critical to cam timing on a race motor.

 

I agree on the mistaken installation of studs - never more than finger tight or you will have problems.

My understanding is the correct procedure is to also take a little bit of material off the seat of the cap to offset the material removed from the bearing bore to prevent the issue of reduced bearing crush.

Yes the procedure will change the crank to cam CL - yes I would agree its an issue on race motors and not so much street motors - especially when timing sets are made to offest these differences.

 

The motor didnt vibrate to bad when it was together... and it turned over more smoother then one of the buick's we're rebuilding up at the church...

Prolly gonna skip the align bore/hone and go with ARP bolts...

Thanks for the input guys :cheers:

 

...just thought I'd share my experience and what I've been told.
First of all, before you have the cylinders honed, you need to decide what you're going to use, and have the machinist use those to fasten down the torque plate for the honing process. I've seen pics in a magazine where they honed with bolts then honed with studs and you could see five spots in the cylinder where the cylinder distored differantly from bolts to studs.

I bought the set of ARP studs for two reasons, 1- I thought it would facilitate teardowns, and 2- the threads in the block are less stressed.

Well, I had some fun playin' with them studs.
I first used a thread chaser to clean the threads in the block, then I used some solvent to clean the threads. I then finished by using compressed air to blow out the threads. I used the recommended non-hardening teflon sealer that ARP recommends. Its this chalky white paste that didn't spread so well (or maybe I had a bad tube of the stuff??). I put the studs in finger tight, put the gasket on, and followed the torque sequence.
I finish the rest of the motor assembly, and ran the car in the driveway, setting the lash, and timing etc.
I drove her around the block for two minutes, and came home to find the driver side header smoking.
I found that the studs near the spark plugs were bleeding coolant past the threads of the block and nut.
I pulled the valve covers and saw some milky oil.
I pulled the heads again, drained the oil, and coolant. The oil was clean, so the contamination was limited only to the oil pooled in the head.
I tried a differant sealer that somebody recommended, and rented a pressure tester from Autozone. I put some 3in1 oil on the studs and still saw that there was bleeding past the threads.
Some people say that this is normal, and can be expected from studs. Well, I did't want ONE DROP of antifreeze mixing with my oil!!!!
I pulled the heads again, and spoke to some other people, and I posted my woes here.
That's where I heard that sometimes the block threads are so beaten up, that there is almost no way to get a good seal from them.
I decided to just order a set of ARP bolts, and use them.
Just for kicks and grins, I decided to do my drivers side with studs, and used high temp orange rtv to seal the threads. I then used bolts on the passenger side with this aviation cement (or gorilla snot as my mechanic calls it).
Well, this time the studs seal perfectly, and the bolts still leak. I removed the bolts, clean the threads for what is like the 5th time, and used the orange rtv to seal the bolts up.
FINALLY I got both of the heads on without any leakage. My motor to this day still has studs on one side and bolts on the other because I didn't want to go through all that stuff again!!!
I've been told that its unwize to run my car with studs due to the fact it was honed with bolts, because of the differant distortion pattern, and to tell you the truth, untill this moment, I haven't worried about it that much-- I kinda simply forget.
One last thing, I've read in magazines that ARP strictly recommends that you go through the entire torque sequence, and then loosen the fasteners, a total of THREE TIMES before you finally finish. That means going around in the correct sequence in three steps tightening, then when you're done, loosen them. Then do it all over again two more times. Then, do it one LAST time.
The explanation kinda being: the threads have to properly mate with the block and such, etc.
My problem with this info is... IT WAS NEVER WRITTEN ON THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT CAME WITH THE STUDS OR BOLTS!!!!
I sure was ticked-off when I read that article in CHP, HOT ROD, or CAR CRAFT like three months AFTER I had already conquered my problem!
So, I can't say for sure if the ARP teflon sealer works or not, it sure didn't the first time around, but then again, I hadn't done the secret tighten and loosen the fastener three times before you're ready trick.
From what I remember, the driver's side head is tight, but can be installed with the studs in place, if you're careful not to scratch the gasket surface of the head. Its knida fuzzy, butI remember having trouble clearing the a/c airbox on the passenger side. This problem is compounded by the fact that its kinda hard to remove the studs after they've been torqued down for a while. They went in finger tight, but you might need to jam two nuts to get the stud out.

My advice is to stay away from the studs.
Yeah, it'll sound cool coming out of your mouth, and they say that the threads are less stressed, but do you really want to pay double for something that wont even make the car go any faster??

 

Hehe... This dude speaks my language... But did ya have to say that? I'm the cheapest version of cheap there is... some call it frugal, I call it CHEAP!

Bolts it is...
:smash: