Hey guys...

For sure I'm going to install all new bolts in this engine thats <cross's fingers> Going back together in a couple days... I just need to figure out if studs are they way to go, or should I use bolts?

Main area's of concern are the heads, and main caps... I figure if I need to replace a bearing or something with the engine in it probably wouldnt be to much harder to have studs down there... and I dont think they stretch to much.

Heads I'd like to keep the torque specs the same from the time I put em in to the next rebuild... And I'd love to be able to reuse the hardware and not be worried about them stretching... I've also heard that the studs can get in the way of pulling the heads with the engine in the car. Is this true? If so more then likely I'll go with the bolts.

The price is about the same, but the peace of mind is what I'm after :cheers:

Thanks guys :cool:

 

If you use studs on the heads I don't believe you will be able to remove the heads once the engine is mounted in the car. There will probably be clearance problems. Using studs on the bottom end is a good idea for higher horsepower cars but may be overkill for the average driver. It depends on what you are building the engine to do.

 

:iagree:

 

The heads will be difficult if not impossible to remove if you use studs on the heads, in fact you will have to remove the studs from the block to get them off, in that case you might as well have bolts.

I always use studs on the bottom end of engine builds I do, even if it might be considered overkill, I prefer the better clamping force provided. One thing to understand is that studs generally have a higher torque than bolts and they can actually slightly distort the main webs, most machine shops will reccommend that you line hone your mains if you use studs.

I have known those who have not done this however...perhaps a professional engine builder could chime in....I do line hone my blocks when using studs.

 

Just from the torque stand point I understand why I should use em... but the align honing... probably not something i can do with a bubble gum brush :jester

Do you think I could get away without honing it? This rebuild is getting the car on the road... Vortecs, new cam, headers, new intake, and forged pistons. My understanding is that the stock rods can go to 550hp if you keep the revs down. So I'm neglecting to get the rotating assembly balanced unless you guys are gonna find a way to twist my arm on that oen too! :cheers:

Thanks for the replys guys... I'm the kind of person that has to have others input in order to get the brains in motion :crazy:

 

All good replies...use of head studs is advisable if you plan removing the heads on a periodic basis. If not, then why bother. Drag racers use studs due to the fact that they are constantly tearing the motor down. One redeeming value with the studs....saves the threads in the block.

 

I'm figuring that in the next 3-5 years I'll be in it at least twice...

My thoughts are that it'll either get the heads ported... or a big block swapped in its place... ok so the big block may be a few months after the 5 year mark :jester

 

I would get it balanced, you don't want a horrible vibration to ruin your smooth cruise or cause any internal damage.

 

Hmm... How much would it cost to get it done at a shop? Or at least a low price and a high price?

The crank I know has to be spun... so that would be out if i wanted to do it my self... But i do have access to some pretty decent scales, Could I assemble the rod assemblies and do it myself with a file?

Thanks again for the input guys :cheers:

 

I think you could as long as you balanced the rods/pistions first then gave that figure to the balancing shop. I replaced rod bolts on one rod and use an elec scale to grind the bolts for stroker clereance and get it to weigh the same grams as the other rods.

I would think if you are only getting the crank balnced it should only be about $100 or so. Call some places around you and let them know what you want to do.


[Modified by Fevre, 11:05 AM 10/2/2003]

 

Thanks bro... :cheers:

 

I have to pull my studded heads more than I would like to. I also do it without removing the motor

 

I believe align honing does not have to be done all the time. The reason behind this is under normal operation the crank is going to flex and bend a little and the few thousands of an inch that align honig takes out really dosen't matter, this of course only applies to a crank that is turning freely. :D

 

:iagree: Definately get it balanced (dynamically) while it's all apart. You can do the pistons yourself if you've got accurate scales (but only after any polishing or smoothing of the crowns has been done). Rods could be a bit trickier as you need to balance each end to be the same ie. it's not just the whole rod that has to be equal to the other rods, each end has to be equal. After having messed about doing rods & pistons myself, I find it easier just to give the whole shooting match to the guy doing the balancing :yesnod:
Even though you can't feel much vibration in a rubber mounted V8, it's still there. When I last had some balancing done the guy was working on balancing a V8 reciprocating assy. There were quite a few holes & tungsten slugs in the crank & I'll wager that the engine felt pretty smooth before it was balanced.
You'll need to give them the crank (obviously!), rods, shells, gudgeon pins, circlips, rings, bolts, nuts, everything. And don't mix any of it up when you get it back! Just for info, the last engine I had balanced was a twin. The guy told me that it had been statically balanced perfectly - crank on knife edges, rods weight matched overall, same for pistons, etc (which was nice as I was the one who did it!). After getting it back together after being dynamically balanced it was a revelation - it feels nearly as smooth as a V8!! Your engine will love you for it :)
Cost? Don't know for you guys, but I asked here & he said a SBC should be about £150 ($240) as long as he didn't have to start adding weight to it.
:cheers:

 

You bunch of meenies!

So once the rods are balanced she's done for good in that area? Then if I upgrade the crank at a later date I can leave the rods alone?

Other then the idea of the end price going up 200-300 it sounds like a good idea... :cheers:

smooth shiny stuff :party:

 

Oh... how close do the scales have to be to pull it off when it comes to the rods? At least the static weight like your talking about... :cheers:

 

yea, if you don't have the clearance just remove the studs too, really easy, you just remove the long ones and leave the short ones on the exh. side in the block, even simplifies putting the head back in place

 

ZD,
I did it to 0.1gms. I can't remember what they were done to when dynamically balanced with each end matched. I'd have to look at the ticket, but I'm away tlil next Tuesday, which will probably be to late for you?
What the guy did to do each end of the rod was to suspend the other end so that the axis of the big/little end was horizontal with axis of the end being weighed. No doubt that had an effect on the overall balancing of the crank as the balance factor used for the crank balance is a %age of various things, including rod ends - but he was very reluctant to give much away about that (the balance factor equates to the weight that is fixed to the rod journals when the crank is balanced. I was told years ago that it was the %age of the total weight of the rod, piston, rings, etc. But apparently not?).
The rods came back with very little modification to what I'd already done (but I could have been lucky & had pretty well matched rods in the 1st place).
The next question is where to remove metal from the rods to match them. I know where to do it on the engine I was working on (alloy rods, steel end caps), but I wouldn't like to say for a SB. Hopefully somebody will chime in with the info?
After seeing how many holes were drilled in my statically perfectly balanced crank, I'd very highly recommend dynamic balancing :yesnod:
:cheers:
edit: Yes, once the rods, etc have been balanced then they won't need to be altered if you change the crank. If you get this crank dynamically balanced then you'd really have to get the new one balanced as well. Or, if you're intending to fit another crank at a later date then it'd be an idea to ignore balancing now, save up some cash & get the whole lot balanced dynamically when you get the new crank.


[Modified by UKPaul, 12:27 PM 10/2/2003]

 

my dynamic balance job was $125. The rods were done, and I didn't do the pistons. Only reason I did it at all was it is an external balance setup, and I was switching flywheels. It is a budget build. I would balance anything I was thinking of taking above 6000rpm regularly, or anything that was more than budget.

Get the block line honed if you use studs. Period.

If you can't afford to do the right things, just wait a couple of weeks and squeeze the pennies. :cheers:

 

Actually if your considering main and head studs. You need to get a quality machine shop to blue print the block. That way all the head studs when installed are in perfect alignment.

Always have the motor finely balanced it's low cost extra hp that makes your motor last longer.