Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid
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Race Director
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From: Forked River NJ
Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid
Looking for more power. Isn't everyone. I considered pulling the motor and going to a 383 with the current cam and heads I have but the short block has been all balanced and gone over and only has about 4000 miles and is still very strong. I realize the cam I have in there is too large but it runs pretty strong. I know that the hyd. rollers have about had it by 6000 rpm and they are easier on the valve train and so on. Is the solid roller a better choice by giving better throttle response and better power? I usually shift this motor at about 6700 rpm with this cam. I want to shorten up on the duration I figure around 235 to 240 and have the lift around 525 to 550.
Also what are you small block roller guys running for a timing cover and what type of button are you running.
Also what are you small block roller guys running for a timing cover and what type of button are you running.
Race Director
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From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Gordonm)
I am going with a solid roller in my new 400ish motor. I would think if you went down in duration with a hydro roller you would not gain any power just better idling and streetabilty.
If you don't mind adjusting a solid cam that is the way to get both worlds, more power with less duration. I am going with Comp Cam s Extreme street roller XR280R that is in the 245 duration .575" lift range, you might want to go to the XR274R.
I am using a Cloyes 2 piece aluminm timing chain cover that has a built in roller cam button.
If you don't mind adjusting a solid cam that is the way to get both worlds, more power with less duration. I am going with Comp Cam s Extreme street roller XR280R that is in the 245 duration .575" lift range, you might want to go to the XR274R.
I am using a Cloyes 2 piece aluminm timing chain cover that has a built in roller cam button.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Billings MT
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Gordonm)
My XR288-HR has no problems at 6500rpm. A solid roller will induce more wear on the valvetrain, and won't last as long as a HR, but can have a steeper ramp and higher lift. It depends on what you want to do with it. If you drive on the street 90% of the time I would say go with a HR. If you only drive 2000 miles a year and you like to run the **** out of it, why not go with the solid roller... :jester:
I am running a thick cast aluminum timing cover with a Crane button.
:cheers:
Also...My Wieand Team-G waterpump has a tapped boss to put a bolt up against the timing cover to prevent flex, but I don't need it with the cast cover.
[Modified by VETDRMS, 6:48 PM 11/30/2003]
I am running a thick cast aluminum timing cover with a Crane button.
:cheers:
Also...My Wieand Team-G waterpump has a tapped boss to put a bolt up against the timing cover to prevent flex, but I don't need it with the cast cover.
[Modified by VETDRMS, 6:48 PM 11/30/2003]
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From: Clymer PA
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Gordonm)
If your budget can swing it, I'd definitely go the roller cam route (I know I would if I could afford it). As for the hydraulic vs solid question. If it were me I'd go with a solid roller, I don't ever foresee myself putting another hydraulic cam into a motor that's in the 'Vette.
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From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Gordonm)
Gordonm: List your combo.
Solid rollers will give better power and response, but at the cost of durability. If you run a street roller profile it helps a lot. In a small block 15-20,000 miles before ther lifters need replaced is not uncommon. The things you can do to make a roller live and not come back to bite you are, do not let it idle too long (I never let mine idle longer than 30 seconds before I give it enough gas to bring it up to 2000 rpms to splash some oil on the lifters), check lash frequently and keep a log on how much out of adjustment each lifter is. When I see one out by more than .005 or more I keep a very close eye on it and if is out again when I adjust it I will tear the intake off and inspect / replace the lifter. When a solid roller lets go it can be catastrophic. Saying that the only time I have seen a solid roller let go in a street engine was with a defective product (Comp Endurex lifter) not paying attention to a noisy lifter or trying to run race profiles on the street.
Solid rollers will give better power and response, but at the cost of durability. If you run a street roller profile it helps a lot. In a small block 15-20,000 miles before ther lifters need replaced is not uncommon. The things you can do to make a roller live and not come back to bite you are, do not let it idle too long (I never let mine idle longer than 30 seconds before I give it enough gas to bring it up to 2000 rpms to splash some oil on the lifters), check lash frequently and keep a log on how much out of adjustment each lifter is. When I see one out by more than .005 or more I keep a very close eye on it and if is out again when I adjust it I will tear the intake off and inspect / replace the lifter. When a solid roller lets go it can be catastrophic. Saying that the only time I have seen a solid roller let go in a street engine was with a defective product (Comp Endurex lifter) not paying attention to a noisy lifter or trying to run race profiles on the street.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: San Jose California
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (69 N.O.X. RATT)
I was talking with the Crane guys at their booth while at the Pamona Drag Nationals a few weeks ago. They said that their solid roller lifters, especially the lighter pro-lifters, will go as long as any factory lifter combination when used with any of the streetable roller cams not running the ultra high spring pressure the race cams need to use.
I'm sure there are failures at less than 100,000 miles with their rollers, but I have also read on this forum many failures with only a few miles on very conservative factory type hydraulic and flat tappet grinds too.
Keep the oil clean, check the lash periodically and keep notes, make sure you don't have coil bind at full lift for both inner and outer springs, don't use oil restrictors, stay within advised rev limits, and don't let your car sit at idle for hours at a time (Crane's comment).
Chuck
I'm sure there are failures at less than 100,000 miles with their rollers, but I have also read on this forum many failures with only a few miles on very conservative factory type hydraulic and flat tappet grinds too.
Keep the oil clean, check the lash periodically and keep notes, make sure you don't have coil bind at full lift for both inner and outer springs, don't use oil restrictors, stay within advised rev limits, and don't let your car sit at idle for hours at a time (Crane's comment).
Chuck
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Thread Starter
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From: Forked River NJ
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Chuck Harmon)
Thanks guys. It looks like the solid one is the ticket. I had pretty much made up my mind to go solid. I did not know about letting it idle to long. Good point. The car is a weekend toy and adjustment is no problem. I have had solids for a while so I know the routine. Now it is just a matter of which cam to run. I'll have to call Crane and Comp and get their recomendations.
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From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Gordonm)
Chuck: You got that solid roller L-88 running yet ? Looking forward to hearing about how that thing runs.
I know you are only the messenger, but I have never heard of a solid roller lifter lasting 100,00 miles. As far as not letting the motor idle "For hours" as you know solid rollers only get oil from the crank splashing around, not much of that going on at idle. Minutes at idle can destroy a sold roller. If Crane will garantee 50,00 miles (in writing) I would buy a set right now, so would everybody else running a solid roller. In short :bs
On a side note, did you ever have any problems with the Kemco lead additive MM told us about. I am considering bumping the compression in my motor and I know you used the stuff in you L-88.
I know you are only the messenger, but I have never heard of a solid roller lifter lasting 100,00 miles. As far as not letting the motor idle "For hours" as you know solid rollers only get oil from the crank splashing around, not much of that going on at idle. Minutes at idle can destroy a sold roller. If Crane will garantee 50,00 miles (in writing) I would buy a set right now, so would everybody else running a solid roller. In short :bs
On a side note, did you ever have any problems with the Kemco lead additive MM told us about. I am considering bumping the compression in my motor and I know you used the stuff in you L-88.
Team Owner
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From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Chuck Harmon)
Chuck - I'm running the Crane pro roller lifters. The downside is they sell for about $550. The good thing is Crane has a warranty program. They will replace them at cost & shipping.
Gordonm - I use the Cloyes roller button timing cover.
Another thought is: 383 will drop your peak power 300-400 rpm over your 355. It might just run pretty nice with the cam you have.
Gordonm - I use the Cloyes roller button timing cover.
Another thought is: 383 will drop your peak power 300-400 rpm over your 355. It might just run pretty nice with the cam you have.
Le Mans Master
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From: B'Ville NY
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St. Jude Donor '05
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Chuck Harmon)
Keep the oil clean, check the lash periodically and keep notes, make sure you don't have coil bind at full lift for both inner and outer springs, don't use oil restrictors , stay within advised rev limits, and don't let your car sit at idle for hours at a time (Crane's comment).
Chuck
Chuck
Also with my Dart block having drain holes like the BBC (directly over the cam), do I need to still be concerned about the cam not getting enough oil ?
TIA :cheers:
[Modified by SmokedTires, 4:11 PM 12/1/2003]
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From: Roxbury NJ
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Gordonm)
That is my other option to keep the top end the way it is and get a 383 rotating assembly.
Didn't you get kicked out of Etown for going too fast last time I saw you? :lol: Just what you need, more power!
[Modified by Flareside, 4:25 PM 12/1/2003]
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From: Reno Nevada
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Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (SmokedTires)
Mike - I used .060 oil restrictors even though they said not to. I attribute the restrictors and spring pressure as to why my roller cam and lifter got destroyed at just under 20K miles. Also my springs had lost nearly 25 pounds due to heat & fatigue
So with the new cam and lifters I lowered the spring pressure and drilled out the restrictors to .120 diameter. That like three times the oil flow of .060 It also dropped my oil pressure somewhat @ 10 psi down to 70 with 10W-30 syn oil.
Oil restrictors are for race machines that always run at higher rpm.
So with the new cam and lifters I lowered the spring pressure and drilled out the restrictors to .120 diameter. That like three times the oil flow of .060 It also dropped my oil pressure somewhat @ 10 psi down to 70 with 10W-30 syn oil.
Oil restrictors are for race machines that always run at higher rpm.
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From: Forked River NJ
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Flareside)
I got the boot because I did not have the hardtop on. With the hardtop I'm good to 12.0. I have been running at Atco recently and they have not said anything to me yet running high 12s with the soft top. I do like the ease and less cost of solids vs roller but in the never ending quest for more power I'll try something. I got the urge this past weekend driving a 600 HP Camaro. Sure is nice to be able to send the tires up in smoke anytime you want.
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From: Taylor Michigan
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Gordonm)
A roller camshaft will increase the weight of the valve train with the heavy lifters and all the necessary high rev stuff to keep the lifters on the cam and not bounce at the high rpm`s necessary to make serious HP. Not the bench racing type either. Less maintance on a solid lifter flat tappet camshaft unless it`s an all out racer thats opened up after every race to check for broken parts. If it`s a street machine, stay with a very good flat tappet solid lifter cam. :thumbs:
Melting Slicks
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From: San Jose California
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Ironcross)
My roller tappets weigh 105 grams vs. 100 grams for the factory solid lifters. There are no rev kits needed. Even with the higher spring pressure, rollers rolling over cam lobes make much less friction (heat) than a solid lifter sliding over them. Mechanically, the spring rates offset each other. As much power as it takes to lift a lifter against a spring, it is countered by another strong spring pushing down on the backside of another lobe. The coefficient of friction is largely unaffected by spring pressure with roller cams. The coefficient of friction would be expected to increase with flat tappet cams forced to slide lifter face to lobe face.
Chuck
Chuck
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From: B'Ville NY
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St. Jude Donor '05
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (Gordonm)
Thanks George, I'll keep that in mind ;)
Gordon do tell, you got behind the wheel of the wicked Camaro :eek: , those type things are not good for me or my wallet :D
Gordon do tell, you got behind the wheel of the wicked Camaro :eek: , those type things are not good for me or my wallet :D
Thread Starter
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From: Forked River NJ
Re: Roller cam? Hyd vs Solid (SmokedTires)
Mike I have to tell you it is just plain friggen awsome. 600+ HP at your right foot and instant wheel spin anytime you want. We shot some video of it and I just asked my brother in law to send it to me. When I get it I'll send it your way. I was even driving in the last shot.