I'm resurrecting this thread because I never really got a reply on the driveshaft length thing. Anyone who has done the changeover from Turbo 400 to manual trans...was the driveshaft length an issue?

Thanks,
Dep

 

seems like a good place to ask the question...The people that have converted to stick, how much money did it cost to make the conversion?

 

Red: I can answer your question... sort of
If you have a donor car, it would be dirt cheap. If you are buying your parts from Zip and other sources, it's more. I plan on a Richmond Super T-10, Lakewood blowproof bellhousing, and Ram competition clutch. Most all of the other parts are available from the various Vette catalogs. The only tricky thing to find is the stick shift brake pedal. Only ones I've found of them are "reconditioned" ones...which is no big deal really. I am also switching to a tilt and telescopic steering column, so I'll already have the mount that hangs the clutch pedals dropped down. As has been posted, welding that bracket gizmo on is the only thing that isn't "bolt on".
Major expenses for the changeover are the manual trans crossmember,
the transmission, bellhousing, and clutch. The rest of the parts aren't cheap (what is on a Vette? ), but they aren't major expense either.

Dep

 

DJ

if you are building this car to be a drag racer why a stick?

They say that autos are faster.

 

Go with a hydraulic setup. It is far easier then the mechanical clutch and everything is readily available.
As for welding the crossmember that is a piece of cake compared to pedal swapping.
You have it all wrong. The pedal swap was the hardest of all the conversion. You end up laying on your back half in the car working under the dash, Drivers seat out , steering column out.
No the hard part is the pedals. Took me a few evenings. There are 10 bolts in total
Other then that the swap is easy.

 

My driveshaft had to be cut down but I was going from 400 to a T5. Even cutting a driveshaft down is no big deal, costs little and is a one day shop thing.
I did have a problem twisting 3 of them before I had a heavy duty 3 inch diameter one built. Cost about $230 total for everything new.

 

My driveshaft had to be cut down but I was going from 400 to a T5. Even cutting a driveshaft down is no big deal, costs little and is a one day shop thing.
I did have a problem twisting 3 of them before I had a heavy duty 3 inch diameter one built. Cost about $230 total for everything new.

 

Norval, I know you've done it before, but can you go into detail on where to source and how to install a hydro clutch?

 

Can you drill and tap your frame and use the 80 type mount for the shaft? They just bolt right on. No welding required. Thats what I used when I converted mine a few years ago. Good luck!

 

I did the same on my 71 with the bolt on z bar bracket. I ended up using a 93 C4 manual aluminum driveshaft with my T5 conversion. Perfect length...

 

turtle: I'm just tired of autos.
I won't be racing for money anyway. The "in" thing is Powerglide for autos, and even if you twisted my arm, I wouldn't install one of those. I remember when we used to call them "slip 'n slide" Powerglide. Racing for money is a joke. You spend more on what you put into the car than what you could ever win. So the stick will go in and I'll race grudge nights. I also don't like to see cars do a holeshot, then let off the gas, then floor it again. To me, that ain't drag racing.

Norval: Since it won't be a daily driver and I won't be driving in traffic, clutch pressure won't really be a problem for me. Actually, it'll be good exercise
I'll definitely have the driver's seat out when I work on the pedals and steering column. I already had to play pretzelman when I replaced my master cylinder and power booster . Not much room to fiddle around under there. I swear Vettes were assembled by elves with tiny hands!!
As you say...if the driveshaft has to be cut it's no big deal. I just wondered if anyone knew for sure. A Super T-10 and a Muncie should be pretty much the same length, so anyone that installed them would be able to tell me if they had to cut the shaft.

John 65: The crossmember will be a direct replacement from a '72 with standard trans, so it won't need welding. Just an expensive SOB is all.

Dep

 

I heard that a Bowtie Overdrives 700r4 crossmember will work on TKO's?? Any truth to this?

 

DJ, converted my Silver '75 L-82 coupe to a 4spd last year when I put in that new GM 260hp 4bolt main 350ci engine last Fall. To me, the pedals were the hardest. Dropped dash & steering column to get to everything-did the whole project, engine/tranny removal, column removal, pedal install, new engine & 4spd install by my lonesome. Not the easiest, but not that bad either. I had a "welder" friend weld my "tab" on while the motor/tranny was out. I too had to solder those two purple wires together at the safety neutral switch to by-pass it. I DID NOT install a clutch safety switch, so it's just like both my '68s anyways. I used my removable Turbo 400 crossmember for this Muncie M20 tranny I installed-now it's just set up like an '80/'81 4spd car.
I'm not sure if it'll work for you, but my '75's Turbo 400 driveshaft yoke was exactly the same and worked in the new Muncie M20 transmission-didn't have to change the driveshaft at all either. Did have to get the longer '75 speedo cable for a '75 4spd car however. Have put over 800mi on my new motor/4spd tranny set up and it's like driving a whole new Corvette all over again(even though over the last 15yrs I drove it 38,000mi with an automatic)

 

I put in a super t 10 and the shaft didnt need to be cut. Also I was talking about bolting the bracket to the frame for the clutch linkage in my eaitler post, not the trans crossmember. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Paul: Excellent! I know it's a bit of a project, but not impossible for me to do. On welding that tab while the engine is out...it certainly would be a lot easier. Heck...I now climb inside my engine compartment and sit on the steering linkage or crossmember to work on things
But how did you figure out where to locate that tab without the hole on the engine as a reference point??? It sure would be easier to weld without the engine installed. I'll be doing that solder thing with the purple wires too

John: I dunno if I can use the '80 bracket on my car, but I'll sure look into it. Bolt on would be preferable to weld on any day
How do you like the Super T-10? Is it pretty heavy duty? Better than a Muncie?

Dep

 

Chiming in here with another question for you guys who have done the swap already. As far as the pedals go, I was under the impresion that the bracket that holds the pedals are the same for autos and manuals, and the pin that holds the brake pedal is welded to the clutch pedal.

Pulling the pin, dropping the auto brake and then installing the manual clutch and brake pedals was what I was planning.

Do I have to take out the entire bracket or can I just swap the pedals?

 

Joe: The pedal setup for clutch is different than for autos.
There is a seperate pin for the automatic trans brake pedal that is NOT attached to the pedal. On a stick shift the pin is actually attached to the clutch pedal (as is shown in the excellent pic you provided).

Swapping the pedals WITHOUT taking the bracket down may be pretty difficult, if not impossible. I had a heck of a time getting the independant pin for the auto inserted and lined up. It may be physically impossible to do with the pin attaced to the clutch pedal without dropping that bracket down. There is VERY little "wiggle room" under the dash.

Dep

 

So if I understand what you are saying is that you do use the same pedal assembly bracket/housing, and swap the seperat pin for the clutch with attached pin?

So in theory you could not remove the pedal assembly bracket/housing and swap the pedals. But due to the space under there you probably cannot.

 

Finally finished my pedal conversion. Here's the pic.

Dep

 

Finished my swap from an auto to T5, I am somewhat doing it again becasue the tranny I got seized up while I was idleing in my driveway. but that is another story! I will break the cost down first.

$180 Flywheel and clutch, from advanced auto
$50 bellhousing, and clutch fork from junkyard
$50 hydraulic clutch setup, slave, hose, master junkyard
$85 Clutch and brake pedal local corvette guy
$250 for a used WC T5 out of a camaro. Like I said it seized up, I got my money back and found another for $225 so we will see how that goes, I haven't put it in yet
$120 to have the driveshaft shortened and new ujoints

Total of $735

Procedure

I was scared to do the pedals as everyone says its the worst. I have to be honest but I didn't find it that bad. It took me about 2 1/2 hours. It seems that the part that everyone has the most trouble with is the top 2 bolts where the brake booster comes through. I went a little extreme with taking things apart but it really seemed to make a difference. I removed:
Drivers seat, steering colum, guages, center console, center guage cluster, and the top dash. This all took about 50 minutes to take out but it made the removing of the actual pedals a breeze, I spent the whole time sitting on my butt, not my back.

Once the pedals were out I put in the master clutch cylinder, it bolts right to the firewall. I did have to cut the shaft a little, and added a threaded eye bolt to connect to the clutch pedal. After that I just put the whole thing back together. not that bad really.

The driveshaft, I had mine done to 26.5, which is what norval said his was, however when I went to use it, it was still to long by about an inch. I think Norval used a mustang T5 so that may be why. The guys at the driveshaft shop took another inch off for me and didn't charge me even though it was my fault.

The crossmember.
I was able to use my existing crossmember (1980 model so it was only bolted in) I did have to clear some material out of the center section, about 1/2 inch or so, I then added a piece of steel on the bottom for more support. The mounting point on the T5 lined up perfectly with where the th350 mounted so I just need to make an adapter to mount it. One other thing on this, for some reason the tran angles to the passenger side just a touch, I used a 5 pound BFH to modify the tunnel so it would fit.

As for the interior the GM T5 shifter will come up through the tunnel right about as far back as the auto shifter but in the middle (left to right). You can fab an offset if you like. I however knowing that my console plate was already quite marked up, and had the wood overlay. What I did was remove some of the material on the console that is to the right, and had a leather boot custom made (mother-inlaw!!) that was about 6X6 inches. It mounts to the top of the plastic and teh wood overlay covers it nicely. This puts the shifter in the middle of the center.

That is about all I can think of for now, good luck,