Is this engine streetable?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Is this engine streetable?
I am looking at the 489hp 406 cubic inch engine at this link:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...sort=3&rows=50
In yalls estimation, is that engine streetable? I am worried about the cam, which is listed as:
"108 center line 568 - 568 lift corrected 1.5 ratio = 568/568 lift. 248/248 dur @ 050 awesome power range . lopey muscle car idle. 80% streetable and will run vacum access with canister this is custom for the engine and is very street feindly for power output "
Seems pretty radical, but then again its a 406, so maybe that is plenty mild in such a big cube small block. I want to make absolutely sure I do not have a soft bottem end---I like torque right off idle.
Thanks for any thoughts.
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...sort=3&rows=50
In yalls estimation, is that engine streetable? I am worried about the cam, which is listed as:
"108 center line 568 - 568 lift corrected 1.5 ratio = 568/568 lift. 248/248 dur @ 050 awesome power range . lopey muscle car idle. 80% streetable and will run vacum access with canister this is custom for the engine and is very street feindly for power output "
Seems pretty radical, but then again its a 406, so maybe that is plenty mild in such a big cube small block. I want to make absolutely sure I do not have a soft bottem end---I like torque right off idle.
Thanks for any thoughts.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Just saw they have a 475 hp 383 dart aluminum headed engine on there as well. About its camshaft:
"Features - 106 center line 555 - 555 lift corrected 1.5 ratio = 565/565 lift. 248/248 dur @ 050 awesome power range . lopey muscle car idle. 100% streetable and will run vacum access EVEN WITHOUT CANISTER!! "
Seems even more radical. Any thoughts on the streetability of this engine as well?
Thanks.
"Features - 106 center line 555 - 555 lift corrected 1.5 ratio = 565/565 lift. 248/248 dur @ 050 awesome power range . lopey muscle car idle. 100% streetable and will run vacum access EVEN WITHOUT CANISTER!! "
Seems even more radical. Any thoughts on the streetability of this engine as well?
Thanks.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Forgot to mention that the Vette it is going in has a ROD 6-speed.
My worry about a lack of low-end grunt stems from a 5.0 Mustang I had built back in the day. I put a pretty big cam and GT-40 heads on there, and the top-end horsepower was clearly increased. However, below 3000 it was extremely weak. I think the rebuild actually DECREASED the fun factor.
Thanks again for any views on either of these two engines.
My worry about a lack of low-end grunt stems from a 5.0 Mustang I had built back in the day. I put a pretty big cam and GT-40 heads on there, and the top-end horsepower was clearly increased. However, below 3000 it was extremely weak. I think the rebuild actually DECREASED the fun factor.
Thanks again for any views on either of these two engines.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 11,520
Likes: 13
From: CORVETTE 77 385 C.I. TEXAS
I want to make absolutely sure I do not have a soft bottem end---I like torque right off idle.
Originally Posted by Retard
Forgot to mention that the Vette it is going in has a ROD 6-speed.
My worry about a lack of low-end grunt stems from a 5.0 Mustang I had built back in the day. I put a pretty big cam and GT-40 heads on there, and the top-end horsepower was clearly increased. However, below 3000 it was extremely weak. I think the rebuild actually DECREASED the fun factor.
My worry about a lack of low-end grunt stems from a 5.0 Mustang I had built back in the day. I put a pretty big cam and GT-40 heads on there, and the top-end horsepower was clearly increased. However, below 3000 it was extremely weak. I think the rebuild actually DECREASED the fun factor.
You are asking for less cam for "off idle" & "under 3000".
C6 the C5 of tomorrow
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,665
Likes: 2
From: Twin Cities Minnesota
Too small LSA in my opinion.
I have a 108*LSA cam in my small block 427 and it's stinky at idle. When I redo the cam I will be going to 110-112*
It does have a nice lope to it tho :-)
I have a 108*LSA cam in my small block 427 and it's stinky at idle. When I redo the cam I will be going to 110-112*
It does have a nice lope to it tho :-)
Pro
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 690
Likes: 1
From: near Memphis TN
If you are worried about low end power make sure it is going in a car with low rear gears to get that RPM up quick at low speeds. You already have alot of advantages with that 6-speed. Also make sure the compression ration is as high as possible while still able to take pump gas. High compression is the key for low and mid range power for a big cam.
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Drifting
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,414
Likes: 2
From: Barrie
Any engine running on pump gas is streetable in my opinion
As for low end power have you seen this post?
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=906984
As for low end power have you seen this post?
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=906984
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
The engine has 10.2 to 1 compression. So would a cam rated as:
Features - 108 center line 568 - 568 lift corrected 1.5 ratio = 568/568 lift. 248/248 dur @ 050 awesome power range .
Have a soft bottom end in a 406 with 10.2 to 1 conpression? I think not, that it will simply have a lumpy idle and tons of power right when you get on it, but I wanna make sure yall agree.
Features - 108 center line 568 - 568 lift corrected 1.5 ratio = 568/568 lift. 248/248 dur @ 050 awesome power range .
Have a soft bottom end in a 406 with 10.2 to 1 conpression? I think not, that it will simply have a lumpy idle and tons of power right when you get on it, but I wanna make sure yall agree.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,892
Likes: 13
From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
I think you can make it work. I checked the add its self and there is some verbage with the cam that may be misleading. LSA (lobe seperation angle) and ICL (Intake centerline) are not the same. This cam talks about the ICL being a 108, that does not really tell you much without knowing the LSA. Most cams have 4* advance ground into the so it is possible the LSA is a 112. I would check it out to make sure what is going on.
The 248 @ .050 is not that big of a deal. The ROD will help with the low end tq a lot. Take my word for it (I ran two differant big blocks behind an ROD) get at least 3.70 gears, and get the 2.77 first gear ratio in the ROD. With a small block I might even go as low as 4.11 in the rear end. I would also get the .62 6th gear.
I would also go with a Centerforce dual friction clutch. I ran upwards of 800 hp through mine (nitrous) and it never slipped. Another forum member got his to slip in high gear with 825 hp.
The 248 @ .050 is not that big of a deal. The ROD will help with the low end tq a lot. Take my word for it (I ran two differant big blocks behind an ROD) get at least 3.70 gears, and get the 2.77 first gear ratio in the ROD. With a small block I might even go as low as 4.11 in the rear end. I would also get the .62 6th gear.
I would also go with a Centerforce dual friction clutch. I ran upwards of 800 hp through mine (nitrous) and it never slipped. Another forum member got his to slip in high gear with 825 hp.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,892
Likes: 13
From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
I think you can make it work. I checked the add its self and there is some verbage with the cam that may be misleading. LSA (lobe seperation angle) and ICL (Intake centerline) are not the same. This cam talks about the ICL being a 108, that does not really tell you much without knowing the LSA. Most cams have 4* advance ground into the so it is possible the LSA is a 112. I would check it out to make sure what is going on.
The 248 @ .050 is not that big of a deal. The ROD will help with the low end tq a lot. Take my word for it (I ran two differant big blocks in front of an ROD) get at least 3.70 gears, and get the 2.77 first gear ratio in the ROD. With a small block I might even go as low as 4.11 in the rear end. I would also get the .62 6th gear.
I would also go with a Centerforce dual friction clutch. I ran upwards of 800 hp through mine (nitrous) and it never slipped. Another forum member got his to slip in high gear with 825 hp.
The 248 @ .050 is not that big of a deal. The ROD will help with the low end tq a lot. Take my word for it (I ran two differant big blocks in front of an ROD) get at least 3.70 gears, and get the 2.77 first gear ratio in the ROD. With a small block I might even go as low as 4.11 in the rear end. I would also get the .62 6th gear.
I would also go with a Centerforce dual friction clutch. I ran upwards of 800 hp through mine (nitrous) and it never slipped. Another forum member got his to slip in high gear with 825 hp.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
NOX, thanks a bunch.
I actually do have a Dual Friction clutch (I am amazed about how easy it is to push in and out for how many HP it can take). I think the ROD I ordered does have the extra low first gear, but I think it has the .76 sixth gear.
I'll call them and ask about the LSA. If it is indeed 108, would this make it have a weak bottem end?
My goal is to get as much HP as possible but still have a great bottem end.
Thanks again.
I actually do have a Dual Friction clutch (I am amazed about how easy it is to push in and out for how many HP it can take). I think the ROD I ordered does have the extra low first gear, but I think it has the .76 sixth gear.
I'll call them and ask about the LSA. If it is indeed 108, would this make it have a weak bottem end?
My goal is to get as much HP as possible but still have a great bottem end.
Thanks again.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,080
Likes: 565
From: Allen TX
Since it makes peak HP at 6300rpm, then you should be prepared to shift it at 6600+rpm for optimum acceleration. So, all these guys telling you the gearing (trans and rear) have to be right on are correct. If you don't put enough gear in it, it will have a soggy bottom end. You cannot expect that cam to have a rev-range that is 5000rpm wide. It just won't.
FWIW, my 454 has a hyd. roller that is 232/232, .586/.586, 110LSA. Probably could have gone a bit larger and still been happy with it, but nothing over 240^. Just my opinion.
Like you, I've overcammed a small block before and I will never do it again. If its a motor that lives primarily at the race track, that's one thing.
FWIW, my 454 has a hyd. roller that is 232/232, .586/.586, 110LSA. Probably could have gone a bit larger and still been happy with it, but nothing over 240^. Just my opinion.
Like you, I've overcammed a small block before and I will never do it again. If its a motor that lives primarily at the race track, that's one thing.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,892
Likes: 13
From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
The extra low 1st gear is 3.27. Too much gap for me between 1st and 2nd.
Remember that as far as duration goes hydraulic cams "act" 6-8 degrees bigger because of lash and the shape of the first part of the lobe. So a 232 hydraulic will act much like a 240ish solid.
My 454 has 255 and 262 at .050 and while it idles at 1200 rpms it pullled 6th gear in my ROD at 1500.
Remember that as far as duration goes hydraulic cams "act" 6-8 degrees bigger because of lash and the shape of the first part of the lobe. So a 232 hydraulic will act much like a 240ish solid.
My 454 has 255 and 262 at .050 and while it idles at 1200 rpms it pullled 6th gear in my ROD at 1500.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
248/248 duration for a solid roller in a big inch small block is OK but you do that with a flat tappet cam and you might not like the results, could have vacuum problems too. Would go even bigger for track only 
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Dang, sounds like that cam is proly too big for what I am looking for. I will call them tomorrow and see what they say and if they got anything small coming down the pipe.
Can yall give me any pointers as to how much duration and how small (numerically wise) an LSA is the max I should consider if I still want to have a rock solid bottem end? Again, I would like the most HP possible while still maintain a good bottem end. Not necessarily a "spin the tires at any RPM" type of torque, but just a "barely touch the throttle and instantly feel a nice big shove in the back, rather than waiting a second for the engine to spool up" type of torque.
Thanks again all.
Can yall give me any pointers as to how much duration and how small (numerically wise) an LSA is the max I should consider if I still want to have a rock solid bottem end? Again, I would like the most HP possible while still maintain a good bottem end. Not necessarily a "spin the tires at any RPM" type of torque, but just a "barely touch the throttle and instantly feel a nice big shove in the back, rather than waiting a second for the engine to spool up" type of torque.
Thanks again all.