Advice needed on harmonic balancer removal
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,770
Likes: 3
From: St Louis MO
Advice needed on harmonic balancer removal
Background: I'm doing a cam swap in my 454. We've got the heads off. Had to helicoil one of the bolt holes in the dampener after pulling the threads in it. Got some new grade 8 bolts for the puller and it's installed on the dampener.
All I can say is WOW. The front of this Fluidampr balancer is heavily scarred...probably from a hammer. And it won't come off. I've taken balancers off before but this one takes the cake. I cannot turn the ratchet that's attached to the puller without my 3-foot-piece-of-pipe-over-the-ratchet breaker bar. It's that tight. I've been soaking the crank snout in PB Blaster for the past 2 days and it's still no go. I'm about at my wit's end with this thing and need some advice. What other options do I have?
EDIT: this thing looks like a Fluidampr part # 800111 but I can't find a part # on it to verify. The only numbers I see on it are H001996.
Brett
All I can say is WOW. The front of this Fluidampr balancer is heavily scarred...probably from a hammer. And it won't come off. I've taken balancers off before but this one takes the cake. I cannot turn the ratchet that's attached to the puller without my 3-foot-piece-of-pipe-over-the-ratchet breaker bar. It's that tight. I've been soaking the crank snout in PB Blaster for the past 2 days and it's still no go. I'm about at my wit's end with this thing and need some advice. What other options do I have?
EDIT: this thing looks like a Fluidampr part # 800111 but I can't find a part # on it to verify. The only numbers I see on it are H001996.
Brett
Last edited by Brettmc; Sep 25, 2004 at 10:50 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
Aftermarket balancers such as ATI and Fluidamper have to be honed to fit. This is especially important with aftermarket cranks, but often you also need to hone it for a GM crank. Sounds like they didn't hone it and just whacked it on with a sledge... I would seriously consider throwing it in the trash once you finally get it off... If you're seeing hammer marks on it chances are it is damaged.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,770
Likes: 3
From: St Louis MO
I agree Markus. But how to get the dayum thing off?!?!
Can I use a torch to get it off? Would the heat damage the front main bearing? I don't care if it damages the dampener, gonna melt it down to a pile of slag after it comes off.
Brett
Can I use a torch to get it off? Would the heat damage the front main bearing? I don't care if it damages the dampener, gonna melt it down to a pile of slag after it comes off.
Brett
Last edited by Brettmc; Sep 25, 2004 at 11:24 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
I'd be worried that the torch would heat up the crank as well as the balancer and wouldn't really loosen it any.
You said the puller will turn if you use a breaker bar on it, so that's the way I'd go. Probably wreck the puller, but they're fairly cheap. Try to find oneof the better ones that has a bearing at the end. A lot of the resistance you feel is the end of the puller shaft grinding. Also be sure to insert a bolt into the crank, and drill a hole in the head. That way the end of the puller shaft has something to ride against. If you don't have a sacrificial bolt in the crank the puller will mess up the crank threads. Don't ask me how I know....
You said the puller will turn if you use a breaker bar on it, so that's the way I'd go. Probably wreck the puller, but they're fairly cheap. Try to find oneof the better ones that has a bearing at the end. A lot of the resistance you feel is the end of the puller shaft grinding. Also be sure to insert a bolt into the crank, and drill a hole in the head. That way the end of the puller shaft has something to ride against. If you don't have a sacrificial bolt in the crank the puller will mess up the crank threads. Don't ask me how I know....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 14
From: Tolar Texas
I can uderstand the concerns about using heat to assist removal but it sounds like this is your only option. Do you have access to a cutting torch? If so, install a "rose bud" tip for heating.
With the puller highly tensioned, apply the flame to the balancer, around but not on the crank. It's worth a try and may take less heat than you think. If it doesn't come off fairly quickly you will have to wait 'til it all cools back to room temp because the heat will finally sink into the crank causing an equal amount of expansion on balancer and crank.
The center of the puller should help some by acting as a heat sink on the crank.
Your in one of those binds that we all dread but you will prevail.
Good luck.
Mike
With the puller highly tensioned, apply the flame to the balancer, around but not on the crank. It's worth a try and may take less heat than you think. If it doesn't come off fairly quickly you will have to wait 'til it all cools back to room temp because the heat will finally sink into the crank causing an equal amount of expansion on balancer and crank.
The center of the puller should help some by acting as a heat sink on the crank.
Your in one of those binds that we all dread but you will prevail.
Good luck.
Mike
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 14
From: Tolar Texas
Originally Posted by 76REDSTINGER
NO HEAT!!!!!!
you will screw up your crank
pull it off even if you destroy the HB,
cheaper than new crank
you will screw up your crank
pull it off even if you destroy the HB,
cheaper than new crank
I'm just trying to understand. You might keep me from ruining one in the future.
Mike
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 6,744
Likes: 1
From: delmont pa
Cruise-In I Veteran
Cruise-In II Veteran
Originally Posted by Brettmc
I agree Markus. But how to get the dayum thing off?!?!
Can I use a torch to get it off? Would the heat damage the front main bearing? I don't care if it damages the dampener, gonna melt it down to a pile of slag after it comes off.
Brett
Can I use a torch to get it off? Would the heat damage the front main bearing? I don't care if it damages the dampener, gonna melt it down to a pile of slag after it comes off.
Brett
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,198
Likes: 2
From: Eastern Connecticut
I would think if it only takes honing to get the proper fit, a bit of heat around the crank hole with tension from a puller will pop it right off without ruining the crank. Annealing requires heating to over 400 (600?) degrees, and heat treating to over 1000. Are cranks heat treated to begin with? Joe
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
Use a Dremel tool with a thin cutting blade to cut thru the hub. If you don't have one handy, use an angle grinder. If you cut into the damper far enough to get into the fluid, roll the cut to the bottom and drain it completely. Once your cut is as close to thru the hub as you can get it, use a cold chisel in the groove you just cut and whack it with a hammer. It should break the hub and the chisel will hold the crack open wide enough for it to slide right off. I tear down rusty engines all the time and that's the method I've found works every time when I come across a stubborn one. If you have a steel crank, it's not worth taking a chance on getting it too hot and having a brittle snout. HTH
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,770
Likes: 3
From: St Louis MO
I should probably rule out heat. I've asked around locally, and the majority here say the same thing.....no heat.
More info on the hyd damper puller using a portapower. What is that? Where can ya get em?
I just used an Dewalt electric impact wrench rated at 250 lbs on it....no go.
Since it's a 2-piece design, I'm going to separate it tomorrow and look into cutting it off with my trusty dremel unless I get more info on the hydraulic puller.
Thanks for the help so far...keep it coming!
Brett
More info on the hyd damper puller using a portapower. What is that? Where can ya get em?
I just used an Dewalt electric impact wrench rated at 250 lbs on it....no go.
Since it's a 2-piece design, I'm going to separate it tomorrow and look into cutting it off with my trusty dremel unless I get more info on the hydraulic puller.
Thanks for the help so far...keep it coming!
Brett
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: Ontario
Originally Posted by zwede
Sounds like they didn't hone it and just whacked it on with a sledge... I would seriously consider throwing it in the trash once you finally get it off... If you're seeing hammer marks on it chances are it is damaged.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 6,744
Likes: 1
From: delmont pa
Cruise-In I Veteran
Cruise-In II Veteran
Originally Posted by trotter73
Couldn't the crankshaft have been damaged too, after this kind of installation?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 6,744
Likes: 1
From: delmont pa
Cruise-In I Veteran
Cruise-In II Veteran
Originally Posted by Brettmc
I should probably rule out heat. I've asked around locally, and the majority here say the same thing.....no heat.
More info on the hyd damper puller using a portapower. What is that? Where can ya get em?
I just used an Dewalt electric impact wrench rated at 250 lbs on it....no go.
Since it's a 2-piece design, I'm going to separate it tomorrow and look into cutting it off with my trusty dremel unless I get more info on the hydraulic puller.
Thanks for the help so far...keep it coming!
Brett
More info on the hyd damper puller using a portapower. What is that? Where can ya get em?
I just used an Dewalt electric impact wrench rated at 250 lbs on it....no go.
Since it's a 2-piece design, I'm going to separate it tomorrow and look into cutting it off with my trusty dremel unless I get more info on the hydraulic puller.
Thanks for the help so far...keep it coming!
Brett
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,770
Likes: 3
From: St Louis MO
Originally Posted by clem zahrobsky
check the big auto tool rental places. these thing put out tons of pressure
Brett
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,098
Likes: 378
From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Check ur puller set up.
I ruined some of the crank threads before i realized the puller was setup wrong. :o I was lucky enough to be able to clean the remaining good threads with a tap/thread chaser. I just can't recall now but maybe i had forgot the bolt in the crank snout too. Anyways the dampner fought me like hell until i got the puller set it up right but worked great once i figured it out. Just lucky i didn't ruin the snout completely.
So what i'm saying is go back to first base and start over or at least have a second set of eyes look it over.
Good luck. cardo0
:o I was lucky enough to be able to clean the remaining good threads with a tap/thread chaser. I just can't recall now but maybe i had forgot the bolt in the crank snout too. Anyways the dampner fought me like hell until i got the puller set it up right but worked great once i figured it out. Just lucky i didn't ruin the snout completely.So what i'm saying is go back to first base and start over or at least have a second set of eyes look it over.
Good luck. cardo0
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,065
Likes: 2
From: Smalltownville Michigan
Cruise-In 5, 6 & 10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '09
Originally Posted by trotter73
Couldn't the crankshaft have been damaged too, after this kind of installation?
I'm thinking that there's a definite possibility of scarring happening to the mating area where the balancer rides...