I would like to say that I am also very simpathetic to Lani. While working on restoring my 1985, I have experienced a spectacular lack of consistancy in quality and responsiveness with respected vendors.

 

Whenever a problem of this nature reaches the meltdown point, which you'rs is about to. I take it to court. I gave up with the runaround a long time ago. It's very easy to do this type of thing to people on the phone. When they get a summons to appear in small claims court they can either show up or lose. My last situation was with a huge exterminator company. I found carpenter ants in my home and they sold me on a plan to get rid of them. $700.00 worth but it was in line with others. What I got was an idiot with a small sprayer who sparyed some crap around for 20 minutes while talking on the phone. It was supposed to be a 3 to 4 hour job involving way more. I was so pissed that I called the office, told them the prob, and got the run around. When I then told them I was taking them to court and would pursue this forever, the VP got on the line and agreed to refund my money. I told him I would pursue this as far as I would have to. I got the refund in a week. Sorry, but it seems that this is the way business is done these days. You have been run around enough.

 

Geez this is a long thread...took time to read.

1. why did you install the covers? I had a really bad set come from Ecklers that I promptly sent back...you can still drive a car with your old covers on it...why'd you do it. BTW you cannot call a credit card company and get your money back without sending the product back (and having proof you sent it back).

2. looks like someone is using spot glue to attach the leather to the foam, the grade of the foam is soaking up the glue and shrinking when it dries making the pock mark look. Gotta say this is silly on Al's part and I can't believe they'd employ such a technique.

I've seen a lot of Al's stuff that looked really good...even the cover design he ripped of me for the two tone red/black

 

Lani -

Not to be a dick or anything... but have you tried a couple of the old leather tricks?

Wet the seats a little (a light mist) and set them in the sun to tighten up. That's what I have always thought had to be done with new leather seat covers.

As for the thread, that's just poor.

 

Now I'm scared to death. I ordered my neat seats from Al Knoch (Dale) on 8/11, same price $930.00. He said they would ship out on 8/18. On 8/18 they called and said that they wouldn't ship out until 8/23. I asked to speak to Dale and they told me that "he wasn't taking any calls". I call back on 8/23 and then they tell me that they aren't shipping out until 8/30. I ask to speak to Dale again and now they say he is is Carlisle. She said that she would have ?Mary Lou? in customer service call me, no on ever called. I go online and see where they have already hit my credit card for the full amount. I called my credit card company, had them remove the charge. I called Al Knoch Int. back yesterday and I told some girl that when someone gets in that can give me real information, I'll restore the charge to my card. Shes says that I "have" to pay them because my seats are already made. I ask why couldn't they ship them out before 8/30 if they're already made. She said she would have someone call me on Monday. Not bashing, just facts. I've kept quiet because I am new to the forum but I can tell you I won't ever do business with them again. Also, like a previous poster, I've bought/ordered over $5,000.00 worth of parts in the last 4 weeks based on the recommendation of the members of this forum. I must admit. so far Eckler's has been great to deal with and Melrose is fantastic.

 

These are not just covers, they are whole seats i.e. new foam - new leather- ready to install. Why did I install them, well I thought that getting the one seat back out in the sun in use might improve it and that what I was seeing is just temporary. When it didn't appear to change, I called. The following day when I was told it would be taken care of that was also garbage pickup day and I had decided I didn't need the old stuff any more. So sending them back is just not an option.

Mind you, the one seat back and both cushions are fine, awesome in fact. The story is about the one seat back. And the saga that has ensued to get it replaced.

You can dispute a charge with the reason of product defect and it gets released once the vendor makes it whole. I would expect when you spend a moderate amount of money for a quality product there should be a reasonable amount customer service from the company to make it whole, the fault is their's not mine. I shouldn't be held temporarily financially responsible for their problem.

Hey Andy... I didn't want to apply anything to them to later be held responsible for it. I figured if anything the humidity and sun would have been equally effective. (That day I didn't put the sun jacket on or park under the trees.) Heck all four parts still have all the white chalk marks and numbering for each panel. I guess that is something they don't wipe off before they release a product to the customer. I intend to use my Zaino leather care products on the other three parts today, cleaner and conditioner.

Yeah the replacement was really disappointing, because it looks like a pretty well made seal back then just ruin it with the totally wrong color thread. I'll have a much better feeling about this when they call me to tell me hey we are sorry and a new correct seat back is on its way. Here is the tracking number.

 

I wonder why companies fall into this kinda pit?

I mean, they start out great, then fall down as they get bigger. I guess it's a lack of corporate vision on how to grow properly.

Case in point, the tale of 2 audio chains.

Chain One: This one started as a 2 store chain on the DelMarVa Penninsula. They have the same name, but two guys each own one store, independantly owned and operated. This was an agreement. Owner one has a store in VA, owner two, in lower DE. Owner two opens a store in Central DE.

Both of his stores have inventory (re: theft) problems, no real Point of Sale control (everything hand written on reciepts) and high employee turnover. Tries to do home audio, just doesn't get it going.

Good product, poor managment. Store two is closed after a few years.

Chain Two: Several stores, under 2 or three banners. Some are dedicated cell phone stores.The main store has home/car audio and import tuner accessories.

Excellent point of sale control, strong management, excellent inventory control, managed growth. Still operating strong.

-----------------------------

The moral? Have a plan.

I suspect many of these smaller operations start out as an extention of something else. For example, Al Knoch more than likely has an upolstery shop. Likes Vettes, starts to advertise that he is providing this service, and still has the same 4 people working for him.

This tells me that the staff needs to grow, the shop needs to be organized and the CSR staff needs to be invented! I have seen too many small shops start out ok, but due to growth, can't handle it.

It may not even be a plan problem, just a vision thing. Can't see what to do as things grow. That's when one needs to hire a good business manager to run the show, and let the owner do what he/she does best.

It's why Zaino is doing so well, and VB&P and even Ecklers. Remember, all of these firms had to start from something... and grew. And the first rule of business is to have a strong enough ego to hire someone smarter than you. And there are countless other shops just like these that have grown from nothing to be huge.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your runaround with the new seats. Got to admit, those pictures of the offending seat look like crap at half the price. Glad I read this, because that was my next purchase, also in saddle ('88), from this outfit. Oh well. I think I'll wait awhile now. Good Luck!

 

I just did a quick run through of this thread and it seems around a half dozen people are either going to delay purchase or find another vendor for seat covers. I'm sure you can multiply that because of those who read but did not post. I'm not sure what Al Knoch nets on each set but this thread has the potential to cost him several thousand dollars in immediate sales and who knows how much down the road. Someone ought to do the poor guy a favor and make him aware of it....

 

You are so right... and I suspect Lani will do just that.

Apparently, the problem isn't isolated to his order, either.

 

Someone has. And the counting of lost sales is increasing.

 

I didn't get a chance to visit, I got caught up in another deal between two vendors, besides everytime I turned around, I ran into someone else I knew. I swear I kissed more girls today than I have all year, some I never even met before.

 

So glad I read this thread.This vendor makes my avoid list,and warn fellow vette owners list.Thanks for posting.

 

The intention of the post is NOT to discourage doing business with them. But you are a lot more aware of how things can go terribly wrong there when some of the management decides to do a show.

Maybe it can be likened to the computer industry. There are red out times that you just don't buy computers or software. An example of a red out would be the month preceding an annual show or developer conference when you know that is when the manufacturer is releasing new products. Unless your looking for a bargin as the stores are dropping prices of the old product to make room for the new product. So when some company's are doing shows just ensure your order preceeds it or occurs after. Maybe that is a lesson learned from the computer biz.

Seriously I don't want you all to not purchase products from them that is not the intention. But just be aware.

As I mentioned the two cushions and other seat back are great... awesome is word I think I used. I'm still adjusting my seat as new foam gives you a much different driving position then worn out foam. That is for sure.

I'm hopeful they will take care of this and I get a good replacement.

One of the points I was drawing on in the original thread was that many times we just see all the positives. I can still find some positives to my story. But even I was guilty of glossing over the threads in searches that says I had a problem it took a bit but it was solved. Those threads just got buried in all the good stuff. Maybe I should have been more prepared for what I received and antisipated a few CS issues to get things right. I just didn't.

The probability of you other folks having issues is probably pretty rare. Maybe customer service is different when everyone is there, maybe when you don't like an answer you can ask for management and they will take your call and get it resolve. But for this much time and the fact that nearly everyone has a cell phone I just don't buy the excuse well we are at a show and can't handle any of our existing business right now.

 

Just in case you wondered.... no this comment was not missed. So I suppose now we will see new avatars?

 

And Lani's post just above leads me back to two incidents in very recent times:

1. Dave at R-D: we had an issue at install time, 845 pm or so on a weekday. Called the R-D number expecting an answering machine. Dave was there and walked us through the issue, on the spot. NO wait, no hesitate.

2. Daniel and Edre at Envisage Design (clear bra installer, Torrance, CA): they get calls and return them during the day and emails and are returning them at 10-11pm (most communications are by emails).

That is why what he is saying is accurate: businesses CAN stay in touch and do much more than ever before. IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO.

 

I have to agree: I just finished talking to my daughter 2000 miles away for 45 minutes while she was driving from Albuquerque to Las Cruces (about 300 miles). Pretty neat how a Dad can talk to his daughter that far away while she is set on cruise at 77 mph and know she is safe.

I work in a worldwide company. Management is spread out all over the globe. A great percentage of the time people are doing their jobs with their bosses half a world away. When a customer has a problem with equipment if one person is not able to help immediately there are AE's around the globe that are instantly on conference calls solving the problem. Trust me I listen to a couple AE's when the are temporarily in adjacent office.

My brother works as an AE for a large worldwide design tool company, if a customer calls in with an issue calls are not allow to be in a queue longer than a few minutes otherwise that are immediately elevated for an immediate response. Heads roll if a call is allowed to go unnoticed and their performance is based on how fast the issues are resolved and closed.

It's a worldwide economy these day things happen in an instance. In some companies customer service becomes the life blood of the company.

 

What's that old line? "I see you with a different dame every night. You must be a lousy lay..."

 

Now that is too funny!!

 

I had a problem with Al Knoch yesterday but all seems to be OK now. Seems to be some communication issues there...

I inquired months ago about seat covers for my '94. Told it was $630 by Dale (same price as on their website) and that they could install them at Carlisle. I was out on business and said I would call back (I thought I needed to give them my CC and personal info) to make an order. I did and then he said something totally different. Said they could not do a seat cover install at Carlisle and that I would have to order seat covers already on foam for $800 in order to install them at Carlisle. Not happy that the price went up and felt as though I was getting jerked around, as the previous seat foam is just fine and the seat bottom leather appearance-wise was the only thing in not so perfect shape, but whatever, fine, for $170 more what the heck, I make the order for new seat covers on foam.

I was told to check-in in the morning for the install, that they could fit them in during the day as it would only take them minutes to do. At the booth I was told they could not do the installation until after 5. I was a little disappointed and felt a little misled, but fine, I'll stick around the show longer than planned. I get there and was told they couldn't do the install, that it would take 2 hours. Dale had told me it would be 15-30 minutes to do them. Needless to say, I was not happy.

At first, Al, told me that I should "have a little patience". That incensed me...my gripe was that I had been given false information and kept getting put off time-wise all day.

I am a business owner. One thing that I will say, is that I NEVER make a promise I cannot keep. I tell people when I can do something and don't give them false hopes. If you are honest, most people don't mind waiting. If you tell them you can do somehting and cannot do it at the appointed time, at a reasonable quality level, then you will make them very unhappy. This is not good for business.

In the end, I will say that Al made good on everything, including discounting the price. The seats got installed and so far they look great. I'm hoping they stay that way and that the hassle was worth it.

Thank you for letting me share...