drcook

standing by the car and using my thumb to lock the door by hitting the button -vs- walking away from the car and letting it lock that way. shouldn't be a difference, but in my career (writing software) standard practice was to test all the variables (well all the variables you could envision)

markKlein

I guess you are talking about the button on the fob. Be advised that it was not designed for that use, and the button only unlocks the pass. door, not the drivers. It does not lock any doors. The fob was only designed to be used passively. Don't screw up your testing by not understanding how it is supposed to work (40 years programming). It would probably be beneficial to read the two or three pages about the PKE system in the owners manual.

drcook

According to the 1996 User Manual. So GM is wrong ? What the manual doesn't say is whether or not it will still open the doors using the button on the FOB if the PKE is turned off. That will be one of the tests.

When you only test for how it SHOULD work, -vs- how it can be made to work, that is what causes software failures. Most of the last 13 years I spent working was chasing software bugs due to that kind of thinking by the folks that wrote the software. They never thought to try and defeat the system and cause a malfunction, which people being people do.

That is also the reason why we read about all the hacking going on. The software writers "just never thought". Also was the reason that the POS 2007 Ford Ranger that I had (1st year of 3.73 rear gears and auto trans) would go into a false neutral when you accelerated (as to merge) had to back out quickly (Akron Ohio drivers cutting you off) and then back onto the throttle. The dealership put a sniffer on it and subsequently Ford engineers said I was causing it. Yes I was after I figured out the pattern, I was trying to blow the b*stard up because it was dangerous. The computer didn't know it was in neutral.

Subsequently after the dealership themselves helped me get out of that truck (I bought it new) there was a Ford TSB issued describing the problem and a software fix/update was created. So they realized there was a problem after all, they just never tested for it.

Same with GM engineers and the 2004.5 and 2005 Duramax diesels. They load tested the trucks pulling a flat trailer with weights put on it when they drug it up the side of a mountain. They never thought that having a real trailer behind the truck would increase the wind resistance and thus the perceived load. GM lost a lot of lawsuits over that one and bought trucks back, unfortunately due to family circumstances we were not able to join the lawsuits.

I was able to fix the truck myself because some very bright people over on the DuramaxForum figured out the overheat issue and derived a fix for it.

My truck would overheat pulling a 7000 lb travel trailer on flat ground if the temps were in the 90's and you were going 59 mph or less. Flat ground with a truck rated to pull over 12000. I figured out during that trip that a simple MPH increase of 3 MPH would help the issue. Then when we had to drive 150 miles through W.Va with the heater on in 90 deg temps to keep the truck from overheating that my wife told me to spend the money and fix it. So $3000.00 later, the problem was fixed. Fortunately we bought the truck for $10,000 less than sticker new so I wasn't too upset. We were still into it less than most folks were and it is still running perfectly to this day.

SO if the manual says that the button can be used to OPEN (ie: unlock) the passenger side door, should not the tests include trying to see if you OPEN it with the FOB that you should then try and LOCK it with the FOB ?

And should the tests not include turning the PKE off and seeing of the button still opens and closes the door ? (ie: locks and unlocks).

Every variable that a human being can conceive needs to be tested.

https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam...tte_owners.pdf

markKlein

What you outlined is exactly what I said, the "door" button unlocks the passenger door. It does not lock anything.

drcook

So you are saying I just should not TRY and see if it does lock it ? If it doesn't lock it, test satisfied. If it DOES lock it, then it is a different scenerio. Without TRYING to see if it locks it, you are simply making an assumption.

And the assumption you also made is that I was saying it works differently than what it does, not that to make the tests valid on my car, that I had to try.

So here is the results of the first round of tests.

1996 LT1 A4 Corvette.
PKE system is enabled.

1.The FOB will NOT lock the passenger door. So it proves out what you said. Test satisfied. It does unlock the door, so with the PKE system enabled it is working as designed.

All I was saying is that you have to go through the test matrix and not make an assumption. Assumptions cause problems.

2. Walk away from car with FOB. Doors lock. Leave FOB out of range of car and attempt to open (unlock) doors with door key. Key unlocks both doors.

3. Leave FOB out of range of car. Lock door with key from outside after shutting door. Walk up with FOB, driver door unlocks and FOB button unlocks passenger door.

4. Leave FOB out of range of car. Lock door(s) using the lock/unlock button inside driver's door, shut door. Walk up with FOB, driver's door unlocks. Walk away, doors lock. Attempt to unlock both doors with key. Key unlocks both doors and doesn't trip alarm.

5. I know from prior experience, if I walk away from car with FOB and windows are down, doors will lock. Then if I leave the FOB out of range of car and reach in the window and unlock the door, the alarm will sound.

We can now say with absolute certainty that on my 96, with the PKE system enabled for both doors, that it is working as designed and described in the manual.

The next set of tests I do on my car will be with the PKE in various stages of deactivation and run through all the scenerios.

Now I have to do the same set of tests with my friend's car and see what the results are.

The point is that I did not make an assumption, I proved it out via actual tests.

Now if we another 1996 that does not act the same with under the same set of test scenerios, something is wrong with that car. My car is low mileage, so it is still working correctly in all systems, other than time, it has not had the duty cycles on its systems that say a car with 100,000 miles.

I hope that someone here on the forum with a 1993 goes through the tests and see how their car reacts. So that we are testing correctly. It would be an assumption to say that a 1993 works the same as a 1996 without doing the tests.

If we can get a baseline that 93's work the same and my friend's does not, then we can kind of with certainty say there is something wrong with their car and I need to help them find it. Right now they have disabled the PKE system and the key works as intended, locking and unlocking the doors.

That is what cost GM a lot of money. They assumed that the cooling system on the 2004 Duramaxes would work the same as on the 2004.5 Duramaxes. They neglected to do a full real range of tests. The difference between an 04 and a 04.5 is the top end of the motor and the intake system. The 04 had a traditional turbo with blow-off valve, the 04.5 a variable vane turbo system with software controlled blow-off by manipulating the position of the vanes. They also redesigned the turbo inlet mouthpiece with some faulty software (bit another car in their lineup) and reduced the hot and cold side tubes. Compounding the effect was they were sucking air from under the hood, and induced a thermal feedback loop.

To relate the turbo inlet mouthpiece to a SBC head, whether it be a Gen 1 or 2, think of the short side radius. The more it is blended to allow passage of the air to smoothly flow, the better your car performs. The faulty software and inexperienced designers, designed and inlet tube with a razor sharp 90 degree turn into the turbo. It also stepped down from a grapefruit sized tube to a tennis sized tube and caused a constriction in the airflow.

Part of the initial fix was to take the mouthpiece (they were made of plastic) and port them out. Smooth out that sharp corner and turn it into a radiused blend, just like in a head (without breaking through). This bought some time while the 06 parts were on backorder due to people figuring out this was part of the fix for their trucks. How did this affect the airstream ? Think of the eddies in a river when it goes around a sharp edges constriction, you can see the whirls in the flow. Air works the same way, fluid dynamics affects air just like it does water, just not in the same degree.

It was so bad, Garrett had to redesign the inlet tube and it was corrected on the model year 06 trucks. Part of the overheat fix was to retrofit the entire 06 air intake assembly which I have retrofitted to my truck. They also increased the size of the radiator 33%, increased the size (effective diameter) of the fan from 18 to 21 inches, doubled the size of the transmission cooler and reduced the compression ratio. This fixed their issue and the model year 06 trucks are some of the most desirable ones when comparing performance against emission mandates.

I have an extra radiator plumbed in behind my bumper, protected but in the air stream, I have a fan to install on such radiator, and I put in a transmission cooler double the size of the one that came on my truck. It now pulls our new trailer that is at least 3000 lbs heavier with ease, through the mountains in 90 degree temps.

I understand this is a Corvette forum, I only use this as an example where GM made a very costly assumption.

markKlein

"standing by the car and using my thumb to lock the door by hitting the button -vs- walking away from the car and letting it lock that way. shouldn't be a difference"

It is clear from your statement that you expected it to lock the car by pushing the button. I simply tried to warn you that your assumption was incorrect. Then you presented a portion of the owners manual as though it contradicted what I said, which it did not. I think it was clear in my statements that I was explaining how the system was designed to work.

drcook

No, I said that I needed to do the test. I did not expect anything. You are making an assumption about how and why I think.

We can go round and round and round. I did the test, you are making assumptions.

You are trying to twist my words into some other meaning to try and defend your position. I had no real basis and I was making an assumption. Which I negated via tests.

markKlein

Sorry, I did assume that "shouldn't be a difference" indicated an expectation. Since I already knew what the outcome should be (based on a properly working factory fob) I thought it might be helpful for you to know what the desired outcome should be. Not trying to get in a pissing match, just trying to help.

drcook

Now we have to find out why there are 3 1993's working differently. My friend's, the subject one here and one I found on the web from a few years ago that had the same issue with the battery dying and the key not unlocking the door. That is how I found about using the starter cable to jump the car. It was mentioned in that old thread I found.

I can readily accept 1 door breaking. But until they get their battery charged up, we can't go through the tests and really determine what is going on. It has been so cold here in Ohio that their battery wasn't taking a trickle charge. And of course, it could have just died the way they do here. A few years ago we went to the store. Car started fine just like it had for the last couple years (of car ownership, not meaning right now). Went into Walmart, came back to car. No start, battery was dead. Went back in, bought battery and cheap tool set. Put battery in and went home.

Once they get the battery up or a new battery, I will go take their car through all the same sequence of tests even to the point of turning the PKE off and seeing what happens. In fact, I am going to do the same with my car, just to say I did it.

I don't use the PKE. I got tired of it locking unlocking locking unlocking, especially at cruise-ins and car shows. Of course, I manually set it by using the inside switch before I shut the door and it is not usually out of my sight. And who really steals a C4 nowadays ?

Also of course, I have 97% convinced them of the wisdom of putting the emergency hood opening cables on the car so if it happens again, we can open the hood.

drcook

I will apologize also. Effective conversation is really hard to do on the internet. We cannot see each other's face to interpret if something was said wrong, but was not an attack, or see if the other person is taking what was said wrong even though it was the right way to say. We truly are creatures that respond to facial clues.

For most of my life, due to some condition I inherited I could not read other people. I took (and still do) take everything as to how it was said. Sometimes it complicates issues. In business I tried to read folks and learned to hear voice tone and body language and developed tremendous relationships with coworkers and management in other divisions.

But I cannot do that here, I can't see you.

Just so you can laugh at me, as much as David R is a bright boy, I interpreted "bridge freezes before roadway" as there was a line that was frozen at the bridge ends, before the roadway. I interpreted things very literal. In this case, "before" indicated a point in time as opposed to meaning a physical location.

dc